billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
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Competing with Mesa Boogie & Marshall Amps...
- Thread starter dubstyle
- Start date
Hi,
I totally feel for you. Had exactly the same problem - Marshall/Mesa duet. They were also turning the bass to 100% simply becasue they could.
My rig was 800W and had plenty of volume. When I cranked up - the walls were shaking. Unfortunatley it didn't sound any good.
So +1 to all suggestions for talking to guitarists and sorting out the volume and EQ settings. Getting a bigger stack will not help if the mix is wrong. The only reason you need volume is to match the accoustic drum kit because there's no real way to turn it down. Any more volume than that is just silly.
Cheers
MP
I totally feel for you. Had exactly the same problem - Marshall/Mesa duet. They were also turning the bass to 100% simply becasue they could.
My rig was 800W and had plenty of volume. When I cranked up - the walls were shaking. Unfortunatley it didn't sound any good.
So +1 to all suggestions for talking to guitarists and sorting out the volume and EQ settings. Getting a bigger stack will not help if the mix is wrong. The only reason you need volume is to match the accoustic drum kit because there's no real way to turn it down. Any more volume than that is just silly.
Cheers
MP
rockstarbassist
Inactive
Lot of bad advice in this thread... lol.
I play against two full stacks of Marshall and Mesa cabs, each powered by their own Mesa 2:90 which is 90W to each cab. I can play with one of my 212s at gig volume and be enough.
Again, get an 810 or 412 with at least 500W SS/hybrid and that'll be enough. Or just get an SVT or 400+ and create a hole in the Ozone Layer.
I play against two full stacks of Marshall and Mesa cabs, each powered by their own Mesa 2:90 which is 90W to each cab. I can play with one of my 212s at gig volume and be enough.
Again, get an 810 or 412 with at least 500W SS/hybrid and that'll be enough. Or just get an SVT or 400+ and create a hole in the Ozone Layer.
HEY..... wake up. Buying more cabinets and more powerful amplifiers only makes it WORSE. The guitar morons will not turn down just because you showed up with another 4x12 cab and a 3000 watt power amp. They will only turn their crap up even louder. The only way to win is to go ampless. DI to the PA and use in-ears or headphones. My gig rig is my bass, a Shuttle 3.0 or MB200, headphones, and a Radial DI. Sweet. 
Haha a lot of you guys say that you would need very elaborate heavy rigs to keep up with such loud guitars?!
In my last band Hexe we had 2 guitars playing through 3 100 watt amps. All with 4x12 cabs.
My solution ended up being to run 3x15 with a Mesa bass 400. And turn the gain up very high. Then I ran the amp mostly flat with the bass up a notch. Treble down a notch. Then I cranked the mid knob on my Sterling!
Straight grindy madness to the breadbasket. No guitar amp could touch that mere 250 watts.
After that battle was decided we negotiated the eq of the amps to be less absurd. No thousand watt amps or dual 8-10 needed.
In my last band Hexe we had 2 guitars playing through 3 100 watt amps. All with 4x12 cabs.
My solution ended up being to run 3x15 with a Mesa bass 400. And turn the gain up very high. Then I ran the amp mostly flat with the bass up a notch. Treble down a notch. Then I cranked the mid knob on my Sterling!
Straight grindy madness to the breadbasket. No guitar amp could touch that mere 250 watts.
After that battle was decided we negotiated the eq of the amps to be less absurd. No thousand watt amps or dual 8-10 needed.
Solid advice right there, from the voice of experience... I play against two Triple Rec halfstacks every weekend - just got home from a gig, actually... Here's what I gig with:
Mesa M-pulse 600 thru a Powerhouse 810 - other combinations that have worked well in this situation are the M-pulse 600, or an 700rb-II thru a Mesa PH610, Goliath Sr, or Ampeg SVT-810e... If you're in a loud band, you want atleast 300-500 watts, and a minimum of a 610, 810, 412, or a good 215... that way, you can get the volume you need without stressing your gear...
- georgestrings
Indeed. Both me and my guitarist could flatten everyone with volume if we turned up. But we recognize that it's not necessary or advisable to do so, even if it's cool to have the option there.
I want a second 2x15, but I don't NEED it.
George, that is a serious rig.
How does the Mesa compare to other 8 x 10s?
Unfortunately I am not in the position to be thinking quite so big... yet.
How does the Mesa compare to other 8 x 10s?
Unfortunately I am not in the position to be thinking quite so big... yet.
Thanks - it completely spanks the venerable Ampeg SVT-810e, and definitely outperforms 810s by SWR, Aguilar, Peavey, etc... About the only cab I can think of that *might* compare is Genz-Benz's Uber 810, but I haven't had the opportunity to try one, yet...
Check this out:
Get two 4x10 Cabs (8ohm) or 1 8x10 cab (4ohm). Crate and Ampeg make some descent 4x10s,or an Ampeg 8x10. If you're watching you're dollars,get the 4x10(8ohm) now and add another later as you get the money. The only problem with one 8ohm cab is that ur amp won't produce as much volume as it would through a 4ohm. But 2 4x10 cabs sound better than one 8x10(i think)...its splitting hairs,but just a little info for ya.
Why would two 4x10 cabs sound better than one 8x10 cab? If they're the same series, and the 4x10 is simply half of that 8x10, shouldn't they sound identical?
I've always liked 2 4x10"s over one 8x10". If there are horns, you have two as opposed to one in an 8x10". You can split your cabs to both sides of the room/stage or fan them in two directions on one side. 4x10"s can easily be moved by one person. -Luke
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Buy one of those portable air horns for boats. Blast it now and then. Eventually the guitarists will get the hint that they're too loud. Or they'll ask you to leave the band.
Either way, you're better than you were before. And you can use the horn if you get a boat.
Either way, you're better than you were before. And you can use the horn if you get a boat.
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Whenever my band practices the guitars adjust their amps so their volume matches the drummer when he is playing, then I set up my volume last to fill in the mix. If they are playing too loud for the drummer then that's a problem because drummers aren't going through a PA when practicing. If this is happening at gigs, then the sound guy needs to slap someone. That's usually the first thing a sound guy says during the sound check..."You gotta turn it wayyyy down."
Our drummer is quite a hard hitter, she rarely ever complains about being able to hear the kit, although it could get a little lost at times. It's more the vocals and bass that are left at the mercy of the guitar's volume.
A good sound guy will say turn it down. In my experience, sound guys crank everything up way too loud at gigs. And it's usually because they are deaf for having been doing so for years.
Tried out a few cabs this afternoon with the PF-500. There is a fairly limited selection of 4ohm quads at 500 watts or above. I tried a TC Electronic which didn't sound so great, distorted easily and muddied the low end. The GK was nice and bright, very metallic, but I don't think that's my kind of sound. The best two I tried by far were the Hartke, which was crisp, clean and tight, and the Warwick, which had fantastic clarity and sounded very full and deep. I think I'll end up going for a Warwick. There was the option to try out the Ampeg quad but I declined as my budget unfortunately didn't stretch that far and I was afraid that if I heard that thing, I'd be compelled to ignore all reason and sensibility and just get it.
There's a seller here in Melbourne offering $600 (AUD) for his old Warwick WCA 411 Pro bass cab, I think it's a little steep seeing as I can buy one new at $750, but I'll see if I can strike up a bargain. Apparently they are running this model out and introducing something akin to Mark Bass' amp line, more portable, lighter, more modern etc.
Any opinions on the 600 watt 4 x 11" Warwick Pro? I'd like to get some feedback on what others think of it.
Oh, and I also tried the PF-115HE, that is, the 15" Portaflex cab. They'd run out of the 2x10s in the shop. It sounded very nice, sort of a vintage tube kind of feel. Very round sound, nice lows.
There's a seller here in Melbourne offering $600 (AUD) for his old Warwick WCA 411 Pro bass cab, I think it's a little steep seeing as I can buy one new at $750, but I'll see if I can strike up a bargain. Apparently they are running this model out and introducing something akin to Mark Bass' amp line, more portable, lighter, more modern etc.
Any opinions on the 600 watt 4 x 11" Warwick Pro? I'd like to get some feedback on what others think of it.
Oh, and I also tried the PF-115HE, that is, the 15" Portaflex cab. They'd run out of the 2x10s in the shop. It sounded very nice, sort of a vintage tube kind of feel. Very round sound, nice lows.
