Composing music

[MatticusMania]

I do free form beat boxing, how would you write a chart for that?

 

[mutedeity]

You're comparing writing orchestra percussion to writing Pop, Rock, Funk, etc for a drum kit. I wouldn't but if you want to that's your prerogative.

What's the difference? You are still dealing with the same elements. You are basically telling the OP to stick with his instrument and mind his own business about the drummer. I know frank Zappa wouldn't agree with you when he wrote the black page and gave it to Terry Bozzio, and neither do I.

 

[mutedeity]

I'm inclined to agree with this, with one provision. IF you are wrting for a drum kit, then DocBop is correct. IF you are writing for percussion in an orchestral or band setting or some kind of setting where there are multiple players with different instrument then, yes, you have to be very specific about what you want from each player.

I've written drum kit parts for decades for all styles of music and the bottom line is that if you want the best from your drummer (kit) then you give them an understanding of the style and let them know the 'road map' of the music. A good drummer will know many different ways to convey a style, what they need to know to play your music is how long each section (phrase), where you DON'T want them to play, and any place that a specific rhythm has to be played (unision kicks with other instruments).

I'll respectfully decline to take any notice of you whatsoever and continue to write parts for my drummer in detail, right down to which snare cadence I want him to play.

 

[mutedeity]

If you give a drummer a very specific thing to play, chances are he will A) not play it or B) play it, but know of about 50 ways to play it better. Writing specific rhythmic events (hits, whatever) is a far more effective way of writing a drum chart, in my opinion. Only in exceptional circumstances do I write specific notation.

Chances are the drummer can go take a hike and play with the other blues bar hacks.

 

[mutedeity]

Typically of talkbass here we are...

Someone wants to know how to go about writing parts for a drummer. Rather than answer the question everyone arbitrarily chips in 50 reasons why it's not necessary to write drums for a drummer. You know the answer is pretty simple, besides the fact that people do actually score parts for drummers. I am one of them and that arrangement works fine for me, my music and the drummer that plays it. Maybe that makes me the exception rather than the rule, but when someone asks how to go about doing the same the answer isn't this diatribe about why not to do it. the answer is to study drums and drum score and to put it into practice.

I will tell you all for free, no drummer knows better than me about what parts to play on my music, I don't care if Terry Bozzio himself is sitting at the kit for me. Maybe the person asking the question "how do I write drums"? feels the same way.

 

[mutedeity]

I do free form beat boxing, how would you write a chart for that?

You would have to write a legend for different sounds and you would probably use a percussion clef...

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Typically of talkbass here we are...

Someone wants to know how to go about writing parts for a drummer. Rather than answer the question everyone arbitrarily chips in 50 reasons why it's not necessary to write drums for a drummer....

Actually it is typical of Talkbass in that most people don't read the actual question asked...just what they thought was asked...

So if you go back to the original post - it finishes with this question :

" For those of you who write your own music how to did you get past this? "


So it is perfectly reasonable for people to reply to this and say that in most situations they have worked in, there has been no written part for the drummer - in fact this is far more helpful than saying - study drums for 4 years!!

 

[mutedeity]

Actually it is typical of Talkbass in that most people don't read the actual question asked...just what they thought was asked...

So if you go back to the original post - it finishes with this question :

" For those of you who write your own music how to did you get past this? "


So it is perfectly reasonable for people to reply to this and say that in most situations they have worked in, there has been no written part for the drummer - in fact this is far more helpful than saying - study drums for 4 years!!

Yes, and typically of talkbass it seems that taking the lazy way out is the key.

So according to you the answer to "how do I deal with the fact that I don't know how to write drums?" is, don't bother just feel it or ask someone else.

Personally, my answer to that question is that I got past it by not being lazy and learned as much as I could about drumming and it's applications and also about how to read and write a drum chart/score. In my opinion this is much more helpful to someone who wants to know how to write their own music than the 50 justifications for why to ask someone else.

By the way it's not a matter of what the "actual" question is, it's a matter of how it is interpreted. I think most people interpreted the question the same way I did in any case.

 

[Pacman]

Personally, my answer to that question is that I got past it by not being lazy and learned as much as I could about drumming and it's applications and also about how to read and write a drum chart/score. In my opinion this is much more helpful to someone who wants to know how to write their own music than the 50 justifications for why to ask someone else.

What you seemed to have missed, however, what what the practical application of such is. In real-world, professional situations, you'll very rarely see written out drum parts. So rarely as to say that in 25 years of playing professionally, I haven't seen it other than in academic settings.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

So according to you the answer to "how do I deal with the fact that I don't know how to write drums?" is, don't bother just feel it or ask someone else.

Well again - I have to say that I was answering the actual question asked, which I will quote again
:

" For those of you who write your own music how to did you get past this? "


I have given my "real world" answer, rather than a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question...?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think most people interpreted the question the same way I did in any case.

Doesn't make their answers any more right!

 

[JimK]

Write out the roadmap with rests, places to do fills, and write description of the type of style or feel. Some will write a couple bars of drums with the basic feel then do slashes for rest of tune.

That's exactly what I do...& in reverse, I don't mind when a non-bassist hands me a piece of paper & asks, "Can you play something like this for my tune"?

 

[DocBop]

What's the difference? You are still dealing with the same elements. You are basically telling the OP to stick with his instrument and mind his own business about the drummer. I know frank Zappa wouldn't agree with you when he wrote the black page and gave it to Terry Bozzio, and neither do I.

The Mute speaks carve it in stone. You enjoy playing talk radio host. People speak in general you come back with an isolated specific. They go specific you go general. That accomplishes nothing.

I stand by my statements.

 

[HaVIC5]

Chances are the drummer can go take a hike and play with the other blues bar hacks.

I guess every drummer I've ever wrote music for isn't as good at playing drums as you are.

 

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

The Mute speaks carve it in stone. You enjoy playing talk radio host. People speak in general you come back with an isolated specific. They go specific you go general. That accomplishes nothing.

I stand by my statements.

+1

He jumps into plenty of threads and just causes problems by starting arguments. I wouldn't waste your time on him

 

[brivello]

I disagree with this completely.

How many orchestral composers can play every instrument in the orchestra to an expert degree?

none,
but they certainly have an intimate knowledge of all the instruments in the orchestra. They have to know every instruments range, sound quality, particularly difficult fingerings ect.

 

[mutedeity]

none,
but they certainly have an intimate knowledge of all the instruments in the orchestra. They have to know every instruments range, sound quality, particularly difficult fingerings ect.

No joke? And do you think they got that knowledge by following the type of advice given on this thread? Doubtful. They probably actually got off their high horse about "realworld" scenarios based on "their experience" and did some research, like the advice I have given.

 

[mutedeity]

+1

He jumps into plenty of threads and just causes problems by starting arguments. I wouldn't waste your time on him

Yeah don't wast your time on me, just live in your lazy little justified dreamworld, you'll do fine.

 

[mutedeity]

What you seemed to have missed, however, what what the practical application of such is. In real-world, professional situations, you'll very rarely see written out drum parts. So rarely as to say that in 25 years of playing professionally, I haven't seen it other than in academic settings.

I don't know if Terry Bozzio, Bill Bruford, Peter Erskine had the same experience as you, but you are probably right, it never happens, we should all just play by feel and let the drummers do the same.

 

[HaVIC5]

No joke? And do you think they got that knowledge by following the type of advice given on this thread? Doubtful. They probably actually got off their high horse about "realworld" scenarios based on "their experience" and did some research, like the advice I have given.

Yeah don't wast your time on me, just live in your lazy little justified dreamworld, you'll do fine

You say we're in a justified dreamworld based upon "realworld" scenarios and "experience", whereas you, of course, are far more well-grounded with research. Interesting.