Conceptualizing the Pentatonic Scale/Arpeggios over different positions?

[DrewGroove]

Here is the lesson I am learning from The 5 Pentatonic Positions You NEED To Learn - TalkingBass

I can get the 5 pentatonic patterns down easy enough. But outside of practicing these up and down how do I conceptualize this in a practical/useful way? Like do I think "Oh, I went from a C on the 3rd fret of the A, now I play my 1st position scale, now I am moving to the G on the A, now I need to use the 3rd position pattern." Is that what you guys are thinking about when moving around the neck?

Same as thinking of my Arpeggios starting in different positions/the 3 different fingering shapes how can I connect this all in a useful/musical way on the fly instead of a lot of rudimentary exercises that aren't very musical in nature but good for building theory/muscle memory. Or maybe I just need to keep practicing and it will all make sense lol.

 

[Malcolm35]

Here is how I think of and utilize the pentatonic and arpeggio patterns. I have put to memory the "spelling" used in both, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 for a major pentatonic scale and for a Cmaj7 chord the arpeggio spelling would be 1-3-5-7... See or hear the phrase and my fingers know what to do with that information. To get that to flow comes from putting the spelling for both into muscle memory. Run them liked you did you scales.

Major scale box showing scale degree numbers
and the root or tonic note (1) on the 4th string.
........Index..Middle..Ring.....Little
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---1---|-------|---2---|4th string
Put the 1 note over the name of what you are playing
and play the spelling of what you want. For a C pentatonic
find a C note and put the 1 over that note then play the spelling
for a Major C pentatonic.

A pentatonic scale is made up of five notes per octave (penta = five). The major pentatonic scale is similar to the major diatonic scale (7 notes per octave), but without the fourth and the seventh note. E.g. C major pentatonic consists of C, D, E, G, and A. But, I visualize the notes as scale degrees numbers 1-2-3-5-6.

The Minor Pentatonic Scale is constructed of five notes (hence the prefix penta-), and is constructed using the formula: 1 b3 4 5 b7, which means the Minor Pentatonic uses the 1st, flatted 3rd, 4th, 5th ,and flatted 7th note of the Major Scale. So in E minor Pentatonic you would have the notes E, G, A, B, and D. It will leave out the 2 and 6 notes of the natural minor scale.

OK how do you use them? IMO scales are for the melody and arpeggios are used to outline the bass line. This is an over simplification you can use either in both places, but, that is how I think of them.

C chord active, which is also the tonal center of the progression. The C pentatonic scale would be a good candidate to use over that C chord, or because C is the tonal center you could use C Major pentatonic scale over the entire progression. Probably best to expand it into a two octave scale.

F chord active. Notice it is not the tonal center of the progression, but, acts as the IV chord. Here I would use an arpeggio made of the F chord's notes.
1-3-5-8. Perhaps 1 on the first beat and 5 on the third beat. Any of those notes would work.

There is more, but, lets stop here and start getting the pentatonic and arpeggio patterns into muscle memory.

 

[Malcolm35]

Here is the lesson I am learning from The 5 Pentatonic Positions You NEED To Learn - TalkingBass

I can get the 5 pentatonic patterns down easy enough. But outside of practicing these up and down how do I conceptualize this in a practical/useful way? Like do I think "Oh, I went from a C on the 3rd fret of the A, now I play my 1st position scale, now I am moving to the G on the A, now I need to use the 3rd position pattern." Is that what you guys are thinking about when moving around the neck?

I really did not answer this part of your question. If you are using patterns you must move the pattern to accomplish what you want. C major pent. can be played at the 3rd string 3rd fret, or 4th string 8th fret, as there are C notes in both of those locations.

Mark's video goes in detail about this. Just run his video with your bass strapped on and see if it makes since now after reading what I had to say in post # 2. If not come back with specific questions, someone will jump on it.

Good luck.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Here is the lesson I am learning from The 5 Pentatonic Positions You NEED To Learn - TalkingBass

I can get the 5 pentatonic patterns down easy enough. But outside of practicing these up and down how do I conceptualize this in a practical/useful way? Like do I think "Oh, I went from a C on the 3rd fret of the A, now I play my 1st position scale, now I am moving to the G on the A, now I need to use the 3rd position pattern." Is that what you guys are thinking about when moving around the neck?

Same as thinking of my Arpeggios starting in different positions/the 3 different fingering shapes how can I connect this all in a useful/musical way on the fly instead of a lot of rudimentary exercises that aren't very musical in nature but good for building theory/muscle memory. Or maybe I just need to keep practicing and it will all make sense lol.

I was talking to some guys about a book on pentatonics in this thread. I have it and it's really good. I like it anyway. You're right that you kinda of need some direction to have this stuff make musical sense. But there are a lot of cases where you can just learn basslines and you start to hear the pentaonics being used in fills and runs.

Is anyone else getting as much as me from J. Gwizdala's book?

 

[fretlessman71]

Here is the lesson I am learning from The 5 Pentatonic Positions You NEED To Learn - TalkingBass

I can get the 5 pentatonic patterns down easy enough. But outside of practicing these up and down how do I conceptualize this in a practical/useful way? Like do I think "Oh, I went from a C on the 3rd fret of the A, now I play my 1st position scale, now I am moving to the G on the A, now I need to use the 3rd position pattern." Is that what you guys are thinking about when moving around the neck?

Same as thinking of my Arpeggios starting in different positions/the 3 different fingering shapes how can I connect this all in a useful/musical way on the fly instead of a lot of rudimentary exercises that aren't very musical in nature but good for building theory/muscle memory. Or maybe I just need to keep practicing and it will all make sense lol.

Go learn "Sunshine Of Your Love" and "Crossroads" by Cream, and figure out the best way to play the various parts. Connect them with the scales you've learned. Lather, rinse, repeat, for the rest of your life. I'm serious - if you want a practical application, this is a WONDERFUL place to start.

 

[GastonD]

By far the best method for doing this, for me, has been Visual Guide Tones from Dana Rasch. Sure, he does it on guitar, but the exercises and principles are effortlessly transferable to bass. If you check out his VGT series of videos, first three deal with pentatonic scale and their application, both as a playing tool and fretboard familiarization tool.
visualguidetones

I bought the pack, for savings, though.
VGT Section 1

 

[DrewGroove]

I was talking to some guys about a book on pentatonics in this thread. I have it and it's really good. I like it anyway. You're right that you kinda of need some direction to have this stuff make musical sense. But there are a lot of cases where you can just learn basslines and you start to hear the pentaonics being used in fills and runs.

Is anyone else getting as much as me from J. Gwizdala's book?

I am not super great at reading music yet. But I am good at sight-reading notes/chords and TAB is okay but not the biggest fan of TAB... Would this book still work for me?

 

[bherman]

The last part of your OP is the answer about practical applicability. Once you have worked with them enough to have true muscle memory (really the same is true for any arpeggio and scale), your fingers will unconsciously reach for the notes that your brain hears. Learning multiple positions gives you more unconscious choices, if that makes sense.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I am not super great at reading music yet. But I am good at sight-reading notes/chords and TAB is okay but not the biggest fan of TAB... Would this book still work for me?

Well, it's broken up into 3 groups. Notation, tabs and treble clef notation. So there's something for everybody. The different sections are what makes the book so thick, but each one is only about 40 pages long which is thick enough to provide the info you need, but not so thick that it's a pain in the ass book you'll never finish.

What kind of format do you need it to be in? If you're interested, I guess you can just listen to the examples in the video and just use your ear. I don't work for the guy, but from what I can tell, this is the instruction you are probably looking for. The material isn't all that complicated, but having the info and massive repetition on your part is what's gonna make it show up in your playing.

 

[Papageno]

Like do I think "Oh, I went from a C on the 3rd fret of the A, now I play my 1st position scale, now I am moving to the G on the A, now I need to use the 3rd position pattern." Is that what you guys are thinking about when moving around the neck?

I believe one should not think about positions or patterns, but about sounds. Use the pentatonics to make melodies. The nice thing about pentatonics, is that essentially any combination sounds good. Train your ear on pentatonics, and sing improvised pentatonic melodies; then repeat them on your bass. You will come up with melodies that please you better than some others. This is what you should focus on: finding out what you hear internally, and how to play it on your bass.

One should also keep in mind that there are plenty of different pentatonic scales, other than the minor and major pentatonic scales, which are all musically very interesting. For example, the dominant pentatonic (1-2-3-5-b7-8) or the suspended pentatonic (1-2-4-5-b7-8).

 

[DrewGroove]

Well, it's broken up into 3 groups. Notation, tabs and treble clef notation. So there's something for everybody. The different sections are what makes the book so thick, but each one is only about 40 pages long which is thick enough to provide the info you need, but not so thick that it's a pain in the ass book you'll never finish.

What kind of format do you need it to be in? If you're interested, I guess you can just listen to the examples in the video and just use your ear. I don't work for the guy, but from what I can tell, this is the instruction you are probably looking for. The material isn't all that complicated, but having the info and massive repetition on your part is what's gonna make it show up in your playing.

Well i can get by with tabs but they honestly annoy me. My preferred format is notes. Not like treble clef notation, i cant sight read sheet music. But like chords. A to B to G to F ex... makes a lot more sense to me. I probably should start to learn to read sheet music..

 

[Papageno]

I probably should start to learn to read sheet music..

Sure you can only benefit from this.

I would add that it is good to learn both the treble and bass clefs.