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Confessions of a Flatwound convert...
- Thread starter Sundogue
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Exactly why I should put the Chromes back on. I (and my bandmates) hear the difference live, even if no one else does. And with the Chromes there's no need for string changes.
I always get hooked on rounds when I'm alone. I'm not really a social round player, but leave me alone for too long and I'm always back on the rounds.
Ah...thanks guys...I feel better already.
I should just throw all my rounds away instead of hiding them in the cupboard where they tempt me.
About a year ago I put a set of Rotosound 77s on my Squier P bass- liked the tone, couldn't get comfortable with the tension. They're still on, and I have to admit the feel is growing on me but we're not quite there yet.
About two months ago, I put a set of TI Jazz Flats on my Fender P- the feel was odd at first, but I can deal with it. I'm just not down with the tone, though- it sounds twinky and weak, like rubber bands. I figured I'd let them break in, but they're just not doing it for me. I'm a rock player though, so fair enough.
I just got a set of Chrome flats to replace the TIs on my Fender... has Goldilocks found the porridge that's just right? I hope to find out soon...
About two months ago, I put a set of TI Jazz Flats on my Fender P- the feel was odd at first, but I can deal with it. I'm just not down with the tone, though- it sounds twinky and weak, like rubber bands. I figured I'd let them break in, but they're just not doing it for me. I'm a rock player though, so fair enough.
I just got a set of Chrome flats to replace the TIs on my Fender... has Goldilocks found the porridge that's just right? I hope to find out soon...
I hope you'll report back when you try the Chromes.
I love my TI's tone actually, but as I said a few posts back it took a few months for them to come alive. They're over five years old now.
I'm intrigued by the idea of Chromes, and that they supposedly have a higher tension.
I have a short scale that I'm toying with the idea of putting Chromes on, but I'd like to string it BEAD, and I understand that's a no-no with a shortscale due to the B string being too floppy.
We'll see.
I am a rock player too, though we don't play Rush, Yes or anything else really that I need that roundwound brilliance or clarity.
Big difference between playing bass alone or playing in a live setting with the whole band. Flats work better for me in that "rock" setting, but that may be different for you.
I had TI's on, but opted for the Chromes as they were brighter for a flat. Let us know how the Chromes work for you live.
I have found this an interesting and great thread. So many viwpoints.
I have placed a set of flats on my MIM Jazz V. I have left rounds on my MIA Jazz 4 and Ibanez Prestige 4.
I play in a variety wedding/corporate band. The majority of our music in classic rock, 50-60's, country, polka, swing etc.
I use the MIA and Ibanez 99.9% of the time. Well made basses that don't fail.
Then I have started messing with my 5 string with flats more at the request of my drummer. I have to say playing it through a Sansamp and compressor has really suprised me. What tone. Drummer loves it.
Funny enough while I grew up listening to the Who, Rush and Yes, I don't do that kind of music. Most of the stuff I play was recorded on flats and man does it sound good with the drums.
anyway, just my 2 cents.
I have placed a set of flats on my MIM Jazz V. I have left rounds on my MIA Jazz 4 and Ibanez Prestige 4.
I play in a variety wedding/corporate band. The majority of our music in classic rock, 50-60's, country, polka, swing etc.
I use the MIA and Ibanez 99.9% of the time. Well made basses that don't fail.
Then I have started messing with my 5 string with flats more at the request of my drummer. I have to say playing it through a Sansamp and compressor has really suprised me. What tone. Drummer loves it.
Funny enough while I grew up listening to the Who, Rush and Yes, I don't do that kind of music. Most of the stuff I play was recorded on flats and man does it sound good with the drums.
anyway, just my 2 cents.
I live only about 30 minutes away from you and I grew up listening to the same bands/music yet don't really play it much anymore.
There was a time that I played A LOT of Yes, Rush and more progressive rock on a Rick with SS rounds. But since I don't play that kind any longer, makes no sense to me to try to emulate that tone when it really is a bit counterproductive for me to do so.
What really did it for me was the sound WITH the band, within the context of what my band plays. We sound tighter, and the rhythm section has a tighter sound. Not entirely due to using flats, but it is a part of the reason for it.
It is surprising how well defined the bass can be using flats, when many typically thinks of flats as being dull or muddy.
How about light flats? I like the Chromes Super Light set 40-95. The feel is similar to the TI sets, but a little more tension.
I trully regret not putting Flats on my MIM jazz V sooner. But still that B-string doesnt fully convince me. it still sounds a bit floppy even after a pro-setup.
Found the cure for my roundwound addiction...
Full band rehearsal. I didn't have time to change my strings so I went to rehearsal with the SS roundwounds on my bass.
My tone sucked. If I noodled around a bit by myself it sounded alright, but from the very first song on, my bass sounded anemic. Same settings I always use on the same amp in the same room (even from before when I played rounds prior to switching to flats). I never touch my practice amp at our rehearsal place.
The punch was gone. That solid rock bass was missing. So many times I felt like all I could hear was guitars. That roundwound sizzle was lost in the distorted guitars and keyboards, and all I was left with was a feeling of complete dissatisfaction. Any notes on the D and G strings were completely gone. It didn't even matter if I turned up because it wasn't a volume issue, it was just me missing my "bass" in the mix. I sounded like another guitar, but tuned lower.
I didn't tell anyone in the band I put the rounds back on, but they all asked what happened to my sound because it sounded weak. Our lead guitar player suggested I try a new battery in my preamp! That's how weak it sounded with rounds.
I'm putting the Chromes back on. Man, if that didn't prove to me that flats are where it's at for me, nothing will.
Moral of the story?
Don't be dissuaded by the sound of flats when you are playing by yourself. Just like the "honking mids" don't sound good playing alone, but really fit perfect with the band live, flats give very much the same feeling.
Full band rehearsal. I didn't have time to change my strings so I went to rehearsal with the SS roundwounds on my bass.
My tone sucked. If I noodled around a bit by myself it sounded alright, but from the very first song on, my bass sounded anemic. Same settings I always use on the same amp in the same room (even from before when I played rounds prior to switching to flats). I never touch my practice amp at our rehearsal place.
The punch was gone. That solid rock bass was missing. So many times I felt like all I could hear was guitars. That roundwound sizzle was lost in the distorted guitars and keyboards, and all I was left with was a feeling of complete dissatisfaction. Any notes on the D and G strings were completely gone. It didn't even matter if I turned up because it wasn't a volume issue, it was just me missing my "bass" in the mix. I sounded like another guitar, but tuned lower.
I didn't tell anyone in the band I put the rounds back on, but they all asked what happened to my sound because it sounded weak. Our lead guitar player suggested I try a new battery in my preamp! That's how weak it sounded with rounds.
I'm putting the Chromes back on. Man, if that didn't prove to me that flats are where it's at for me, nothing will.
Moral of the story?
Don't be dissuaded by the sound of flats when you are playing by yourself. Just like the "honking mids" don't sound good playing alone, but really fit perfect with the band live, flats give very much the same feeling.
Well said.
Sometimes a puzzle piece isn't much by its self, but when that piece is in its place, nothing else quite like it.
Now get yourself a thick slice of pie.
After following this thread for sometime I'll chime in on my view on flats/rounds. First, a little background info on me. I currently play in an original rock band that is very influenced by classic rock groups, think Rolling Stones, AC/DC, KISS. When I started playing with them I had a Fender Pbass and I was searching for the right string to work with the two guitars. I used Fender 7250's for a while but felt they were lacking punch in the D and G strings. So I made a radical change and strung up my bass with La Bella flats (the 45-105 gauge). I liked the tone a lot but the tension was killer for me. I eventually decided to get a new bass altogether and went for a short scale Fender Mustang. I knew the tension would be lighter and I was looking forward to the fast neck. Having just gotten my new bass I opted to string it with TI JF324's and so far like the feel quite a lot. Today will be the first day I get to practice with the band with the new 'Stang, so I guess that will be the first test. The true test will be how it works out live. In conclusion, I think I'll be sticking with flats for my basses because I really like have a ballsy bass tone and rounds sound thin sometimes.
-Jon
-Jon
I've not been a massive fan of the Chromes I put on my P-Bass. I might leave em on there a little longer and see how they fare after they mellow out a bit.
On the other hand, I've just bought a Warmoth SG with dual Darkstars, and strung it up with Pyramid Golds last night - sounds incredible, can't wait to try it in a band mix.
SS rounds I've tried on my P-Bass do sound thin by comparison.... but the DR Sunbeam nickel rounds on my Peavey T-40 sound fat, fat, FAT! Might switch the P back to bright rounds though, as it works wonders for playing with a pick with a bit of overdrive. Then I'll have 3 very different sounds across my 3 basses.
On the other hand, I've just bought a Warmoth SG with dual Darkstars, and strung it up with Pyramid Golds last night - sounds incredible, can't wait to try it in a band mix.
SS rounds I've tried on my P-Bass do sound thin by comparison.... but the DR Sunbeam nickel rounds on my Peavey T-40 sound fat, fat, FAT! Might switch the P back to bright rounds though, as it works wonders for playing with a pick with a bit of overdrive. Then I'll have 3 very different sounds across my 3 basses.
DR Sunbeams are my favorite roundwound. They seem to have the perfect balance of brightness and fat punch that lasts far longer than any other roundwound I've tried. The SS DR Lo-Riders I had on (had...took them off this morning) were bright but not thick enough. Still prefer Sunbeams for rounds.
Chromes are kind of an acquired taste. Especially when new. They are pretty bright for a flatwound and take a long time to mellow out. Once they do, the loss of that higher end brightness is replaced by a very focused and tight low end and the lo-mids are especially pronounced, giving a very good punch to the rhythm section but leaving a bass sounding like a bass.
IMO (like anything I say could be anything but), one needs to give new flats some time to settle and most certainly judge them fairly within the context of the whole band's sound, not alone.
As I said, I am in on this experiment and have switched one of my basses to flats (the one I am taking to rehearsal tonight, in fact). I see that you aren't changing anything but the strings, though, and I wonder...is it necessary to EQ flats differently from rounds to achieve the same general frequency profile, and if so, how much of the anemic sound you hear is happening because the flats and rounds are giving you different tones, that may be addressable with EQ?
Decided to get myself Rotosound's Jazz Bass flatwounds as well, as I was trying to alter the height of my bass' strings and the E string "accidentally" fell flat and lost its tension. Didn't have a string winder available, so as well as buying one of those I decided to order some RS77LD's as well.
Not sure if the tension I'm getting (45-105) is going to be all that good. Hopefully it's not too tense, but guess I'll downtune at first if it's too difficult to play for an amateur like myself. Going to update the situation and see how the strings play/sound once I get them...
Not sure if the tension I'm getting (45-105) is going to be all that good. Hopefully it's not too tense, but guess I'll downtune at first if it's too difficult to play for an amateur like myself. Going to update the situation and see how the strings play/sound once I get them...
I use EQ'ing more to control the frequencies for a given room, not so much for tone control. The Chromes have tight, focused lows and lo-mids, and produce a better fundamental, with quicker decay than any roundwound. No amount of EQ-ing is going to give me that with the rounds.
Yes, I can (and have) EQ'd roundwounds to sound better, but it often comes at the price of losing control over frequencies that are problematic in a room. To gain control over them only causes the rounds to become anemic again in some cases. I never have that issue with the Chromes.
I just wish I enjoyed the sound of flats as much playing bass by myself, as I do when I play with the band. While I don't speak for anyone else (though I feel this may be the case for many who are thinking of switching to flats or already have) I think it boils down to this...
When I'm onstage and we are cranking out some loud, solid rock music, I love the power of the bass providing that thunderous low end together with the drummer. The brightness and overtones of rounds, I feel, just get lost in the mix of the guitars, while the stronger fundamental and quicker decay of flats gives the low end more focus and tightens things up more than with rounds. But when playing alone at a quieter volume without a drummer, I tend to play more musically or melodic and so I prefer the sound of rounds when playing alone. Perhaps it's just me but flats sound best at gig volume and rounds sound better in a quieter setting where they are allowed to show off that ringing brilliance more. A lot has to do with where one's true nature lies as a bass player. I'm more of a rhythm player and some are more melodic and like the soloing aspect. That affects string choice.
The type of music my band plays requires very solid bass. Nothing flashy where I'm concerned with harmonics or subtlety. Just plain, in-your-face rock bass. I think of my bass as a sonic sledgehammer as opposed to a ball pein. Flats do it better for me.
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