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Confused!!!

TrevorG

TrevorG

Nov 30, 2012
1,998
3,287
U.K.
#1
So I just bought a second hand Ernie Ball volume pedal. Gave it a bit of a wash and plugged it in. Inserted between the bass and the amp I got no problem - it works as designed. When I put it at the end of a line of pedals connected to the amp effects loop. The effected signals fade out with the pedal but the original signal remains the same! Literally all the echo and phaser effects disappear but the guitar main signal stays!!?! Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
 
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#2
The Markbass effects loop is parallel, not series. That means any effects in the loop are blended 50/50 with the clean signal. So if you turn down the effects, the clean signal stays.

IIRC there is a small internal jumper in at least some of their models that allows you to switch the loop to series (no blend).

Anyway, most pedals were designed to work best between bass and amp.
 
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#3
bongomania said:
The Markbass effects loop is parallel, not series. That means any effects in the loop are blended 50/50 with the clean signal. So if you turn down the effects, the clean signal stays.

IIRC there is a small internal jumper in at least some of their models that allows you to switch the loop to series (no blend).

Anyway, most pedals were designed to work best between bass and amp.
Click to expand...

Very many thanks for the explanation. My K1 does not have such a jumper(that I know of). I was fascinated because I was planning on sticking them all on a pedal board. But the volume pedal's fine between bass and amp.
 
#10
TrevorG said:
Very many thanks for the explanation. My K1 does not have such a jumper(that I know of). I was fascinated because I was planning on sticking them all on a pedal board. But the volume pedal's fine between bass and amp.
Click to expand...
Do some searching--- I found out about the series/parallel jumper when repairing an amp. It was internal and not evident to the most casual observer.
 
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#11
TrevorG said:
So I just bought a second hand Ernie Ball volume pedal. Gave it a bit of a wash and plugged it in. Inserted between the bass and the amp I got no problem - it works as designed. When I put it at the end of a line of pedals connected to the amp effects loop. The effected signals fade out with the pedal but the original signal remains the same! Literally all the echo and phaser effects disappear but the guitar main signal stays!!?! Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Click to expand...
Bongo hit it right off the bat. Some effects loops are series, some are parallel, some like are switchable. Sounds like your amps loop is parallel.

Personally I only like to use effects loops for crazy signal routings. For example on our last album at the end of my chain I split the signal and I ran a sans amp RBI and a Darkglass b7k and use the xlr out on both each to their own tracks. Not long after I was doing some research online and found with the RBIs effect loop in parallel I could split the signal and have the b7k going into the effects return on 50/50 which allowed me to combine them and get two channels down to one to replicate the sound live. I eventually replaced the b7k with the alpha omega and have been running the A/o in front of the RBI before my delay because it sounds great that way and I like having delay and looper after the A/o
 
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#12
The audio levels and impedances for the amp's instrument input and the amp's effects loops are drastically different.
While a pedal designed to go between an instrument and the amp input might work OK in the effects loop, it seems that successful use would be a bit of a crap shoot.
 
#15
J Posega said:
They are all better off in front of your amp. Bass FX loops are basically useless.
Click to expand...
Why are bass amps made this way?

Guitar amp effects loops are gold and at lower volumes I enjoyed using my bass amp loop so I could use effects with the amp overdrive, but the master volume comes in before the loop, not after it, so it shoots too much volume through the loop pedals, which is stupid.

Why don't they make the loop work as it should with pedals ?
 
#16
FuzzFacetious said:
Why are bass amps made this way?

Guitar amp effects loops are gold and at lower volumes I enjoyed using my bass amp loop so I could use effects with the amp overdrive, but the master volume comes in before the loop, not after it, so it shoots too much volume through the loop pedals, which is stupid.

Why don't they make the loop work as it should with pedals ?
Click to expand...
Because of post #12.

Things that are designed for instrument level work at instrument level.
Things that are designed line level (effects loops) work at line level.
If you get one to work where it wasn't designed to work, that's a bonus.
Instrument and line (effects loops) are standardized.
No issue with the amp manufacturers doing anything wrong.
It's up to the pedal designers to make their products work one way, the other, or both if they are clever.

Sort of like that power outlet in your wall. They are standardized for the who US.
It is up to the appliance manufacturer to make his product work within the standard.
 
#17
Old Garage-Bander said:
Because of post #12.

Things that are designed for instrument level work at instrument level.
Things that are designed line level (effects loops) work at line level.
If you get one to work where it wasn't designed to work, that's a bonus.
Instrument and line (effects loops) are standardized.
No issue with the amp manufacturers doing anything wrong.
It's up to the pedal designers to make their products work one way, the other, or both if they are clever.

Sort of like that power outlet in your wall. They are standardized for the who US.
It is up to the appliance manufacturer to make his product work within the standard.
Click to expand...
So why is it that guitar amps are built to work with pedals in the loop and bass amps aren't designed that way?

Surely more, especially bedroom, players want pedals in the loop than a rack unit - rack units are mostly used by pros and AFAIK more often used with speakers than amps, so it would make more sense for them to build them with pedals in mind. Unless there's something I'm not understanding here...

My guitar amp has the master volume AFTER the loop and all pedals in the loop work perfectly at all volumes, some are pedals that I'll use both with the bass and with the guitar.
 
#18
FuzzFacetious said:
So why is it that guitar amps are built to work with pedals in the loop and bass amps aren't designed that way?

Surely more, especially bedroom, players want pedals in the loop than a rack unit - rack units are mostly used by pros and AFAIK more often used with speakers than amps, so it would make more sense for them to build them with pedals in mind. Unless there's something I'm not understanding here...

My guitar amp has the master volume AFTER the loop and all pedals in the loop work perfectly at all volumes, some are pedals that I'll use both with the bass and with the guitar.
Click to expand...
Well they have to make things pretty fool proof for guitarists, don't they?:roflmao:

Seriously, without seeing the specs on all of the equipment involved in your particular setup, that's hard for me to say. I can only comment in general about things designed for instrument level vs those designed for line level.

So you say that...
Guitar > guitar pedal > guitar amp works just the same as Guitar > guitar amp effects out > pedal > guitar amp effects in?

But when you replace the guitar with a bass and the guitar amp with a bass amp, but keep the same pedal, it doesn't work no matter how you hook it up?
 
#19
20170604_191751.jpg
20170604_180149.jpg
Well, you guys have put me right off effects loops. rearranged everything.
 
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