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Connecting Mesa Powerhouse bass cabs

#21
couzin2000 said:
I'm.... sure I... don't know. :oops:
I get there is science behind all this, I keep asking questions here because I need answers. My amp seems to be underwhelmed with the 4x10, I can't get a good bang out of it. It's got volume, but it's not "LOUD". (Before you ask, yes, the attenuator dial is "turned off" - no attenuation present.) I'm still cranking my volume all the way to 7-8 on the amp and it's not loud? I'm not sure I'm dealing with this amp the right way then.

Speaking of which - if I use amp into 4x10, but connect 1x 1/4" cable from left output to cab input, AND 1x 1/4" cable from right output to cab parallel out -- does the parallel out need to be connected and if so, does it attenuate the volume levels being output?
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No, do not use 2 cables to a single cabinet. In the case of this particular amp it won't cause any problems (nor will there be ANY benefit), BUT with some amps it could cause serious and costly damage.

The attenuator on the back is only for the tweeter, it has no impact on the woofers. Generally I suggest that the attenuator be turned all the way up (no attenuation for the tweeter) which is fully clockwise. There may be a perception of increased volume because it will cut through the mix better.

I wouldn't expect your set-up as it sits right now to get very loud (loud is also a perception). You kind og have the wrong tools for your expectation IMO. The 4 ohm single 410 would have been a better choice, a second 8 ohm 410 cabinet would be a better choice, and a higher powered amp would be a better choice.
 
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#22
Quickly read through this thread. OP, you don't seem to be responding to agedhorse's posts even though he has taken the time to put up several messages on this thread for you. I just want you to get what your looking for and avoid a debacle. That's all.

Look just below agedhorse's avatar (the picture of the horse playing the bass) on agedhorse's messages. It says, "Development Engineer, Mesa". I will add that in this case, "engineer" means E.E., i.e., electronic engineer. Like with a degree, and everything. Lots of well studied and great messages on this thread, but you will find no better advice than from Mr. Horse.
 
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#23
I received an email reply from Garey Noble over at Mesa/Boogie. Here's the direct quote to my question:

"There is nothing unusual or dangerous about connecting the cabs to the amp. You can daisy-chain the cabs, or use both speaker jacks on the amp if the amp has 2 outputs.
Please let me know if you have any questions or need assistance in any way. Thanks!"​

I think that's pretty much in the same vein as what I was getting from agedhorse in post#21. It makes sense to me. Thanks to all for your help!
 
#24
This is for the possible benefit of anyone who may read this thread:

couzin2000, the message from Garey Noble at Mesa says, "Please let me know if you have any questions or need assistance in any way". You may not have any questions, sir, but that's just because you need assistance and don't know it. The response from Garey Noble at Mesa is not exactly in the same vain as aged horse's message # 21.

I'm not going to re-read this entire thread. As far as I can tell, you need assistance understanding why it's a bad idea to run an 8 ohm 4 X 10 cab with an 8 ohm 2 X 10 cab. That is what you are proposing in your original post. Anybody who reads this thread should understand that there are scientific formulas that specify how much power loudspeakers receive depending on their impedance and how they are connected.

In your setup, if you connect an 8 ohm 4 X 10 cab to your particular bass head, each loudspeaker will receive 50 watts.

In your setup, if you connect an 8 ohm 4 X 10 cab in parallel with an 8 ohm 2 X 10 cab:

1) Each loudspeaker in the 2 X 10 cab will receive 75 watts.

2) Each loudspeaker in the 4 X 10 cab will receive 37.5 watts.

Ideally, in a 6 X 10 array, you want each loudspeaker to receive an equal amount of power. Is that what's happening with a 2 X 10 and a 4 X 10 connected in parallel to your bass head? No, it is not. Why not? To know the answer to that question you need to learn some electronics theory. No biggie. Good luck.
 
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#27
Kukulkan61 said:
I just read thru this, does it all relate to my GK L800 connected to Mesa Subway 12 and 15, I use the 2 outputs on the amp one to each cab, if I use one output and daisy chain the cabs does it make any difference?
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No. The outputs on your amp are in parallel. It's the same thing as using one output and daisy-chaining the cabs together.
 
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#31
Kukulkan61 said:
I just read thru this, does it all relate to my GK L800 connected to Mesa Subway 12 and 15, I use the 2 outputs on the amp one to each cab, if I use one output and daisy chain the cabs does it make any difference?
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It makes no difference, it's a single power amp with 2 speaker jacks wired in parallel.

Kukulkan61 said:
My question is in regards to will both drivers receive the same amount of power?
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Yes, because both cabinets are the same nominal impedance.

Frank77 said:
If they're both single-driver cabs, then yes: each driver will get the same amount of power.
Click to expand...

Only if they are the same nominal impedance.
 
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#33
Roland GR 88 said:
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The two outputs are parallel so hook up your cabs in series. ie; daisy chain them together. At 8ohms your head is pushing 200w and at 4ohms it will do 350w.
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Just an FYI: Daisy Chaining cabs together is NOT a serial connection unless there is a serial output on the first cab that the second cab is plugged into. I have an old Sunn 212 that has both serial and parallel outputs. If it doesn't say serial output, then presume you are hooking it up in parallel. Parallel has been the industry standard for many years.

Doesn't matter if you plug each cab into the amp or one cab into the amp and the 2nd cab into the first with a parallel connection. Both methods will result in a 4 ohm load on the amp.
 
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#34
couzin2000 said:
I received an email reply from Garey Noble over at Mesa/Boogie. Here's the direct quote to my question:

"There is nothing unusual or dangerous about connecting the cabs to the amp. You can daisy-chain the cabs, or use both speaker jacks on the amp if the amp has 2 outputs.
Please let me know if you have any questions or need assistance in any way. Thanks!"​

I think that's pretty much in the same vein as what I was getting from agedhorse in post#21. It makes sense to me. Thanks to all for your help!
Click to expand...
Just so you know, @agedhorse is the bass amp and cab designer at Mesa. He came over to Mesa when Genz Benz closed up shop and he still handles warranty issues for Genz-Benz. Any info you get about Mesa products from @agedhorse you can take as coming directly from the Mesa horse's mouth...pun intended.;)
 
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#36
Best advice on this thread, from @agedhorse, is that if you want to maximize what your amp can produce, get yourself a single 4 ohm 410 cab. The only benefit I can see from your scheme of having an 8 ohm 210 as well as the 8 ohm 410 is that you'll probably be able to use the 210 for a good percentage of your gigs, and it'll be an easier load in. But no advantage (and it looks like from his advice, possibly a disadvantage) from using both the 8 ohm 210 and 410 cabs together.
 
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#37
Aged Horse and Nevada Pete are correct... How about an actual true to life experience.
I tried to do exactly what the OP suggests. I was so excited with my 410/210 set up but ended up having a really bad gig. Initially I thought the 210 cabinet was bad. Turns out that I was pushing the crap out of that poor little 210 to the point where it was farting out when I needed it most. I'm surprised it survived the night, in fact I still wonder if I had damaged it in any way. In other words it turned out worse that with the 410 by itself.

Now I'm wondering about a 212 combined with the 410. Or maybe a 4 ohm 610 and be done with it.
 
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#40
Al Kraft said:
I can confirm that an 8 Ohm PH212 and 8 Ohm PH410 actually sound quite nice together. I've driven mine with a number of heads (including all three Carbine models) and they did not sound stressed in any way.
Click to expand...
This is a MUCH better match all around... sensitivity and power handling.
 
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