Considering speaker cable upgrade

[Aidenn7]

K. It's just that you mentioned "noise floor" so I assumed you thought OP was looking for guitar cable.

ok

My whole point is try out different cables and make your own decision.. Sound is subjective.. But basic facts/science haven't change.

 

[agedhorse]

Interesting to note, tarnish on silver is seemingly silver sulfide and to a lesser extent silver chloride and not silver oxide.

Invalid Link Removed

I'd have to check to see if deoxit removes tarnish.

I think I have referred to oxidation of silver in this way before, it's the opposite of the reduction reaction that would reverse the oxidation reaction back to the elemental metal.

Let’s throw this in the mix.

I’ve heard it’s not good to mix metals. Meaning, gold connectors are only better if the entire signal path is gold.

The purpose behind the plating (for the most part) is to protect a more active metal with a less active metal. Since the platings are all low activity (i.e. Don't easily oxidize), the issues of dissimilar metals is pretty small.

Gold is very low activity, so is nickel, combining the two on a mated contact pair presents little difficulty. In fact, iirc Gold is often plated over nickel.

 

[dabis]

I have only bought something for durability.. And warranty.. I've had cheap cables, fender California cables, I have plenty of lava cable.. I have a spool of it and the mini cables.. I have monster cables-warranty is great.. I have Mogami gold or platinum speakon -the higher end one.. Lol hell I have an esp ac cord.. did I spend a bit yes I did.. can I hear a difference.. in some cases yes.. in some cases no.. but I the strong one stay.. and bad work their way out.. and yes I did the ESP double bind test with my cousin.. didn't think any thing would change.. two things happened the noise floor went down.. because the damn thing is built like a tank. no other notable reactions have happened.. I've had it for 7-8 years.. not breaking.. so I think that alone was worth the money.. I'm even getting another for my other amp.. the Mogami is top notch got it 3 years ago I'll be getting another.. soon too.. the monsters are little too rigid I'm going to be going with Right Angle silencer/mute plugs and real neutric jacks on the new cable.. going to keep it about 18ft ish for a better high end sound. Aged Horse is right on all accounts.. I'm just a sucker for I think works better.. I'm paying for piece of mind and I don't regret it one bit.. do what you want.. regardless the price.. try to get solid products.. period.. hell make your own cables so you know the quality.. if you really want.. but Mogami-Lava-Monsters-Phil Jones are worth trying for yourself

Absolutely what I done: buying thinking in durability. IME Mogami it's a good example, Neutrik it's out of doubt, if not the only speakon manufacturer that the products last and last. I have 5 or 6 short cables that I make with Evidence audio and Sommer Cable (from germany, low capacitance). I A/B'd trying to find a real difference and didn't found anything. ProCo speaker cables IME are good and last an entire life.

 

[Greenstreet]

I participated in a shootout at the SWR factory back in the mid-90's, in which the unanimous verdict was that the speaker cables that SWR supplied with their gear (basic, inexpensive Connectronics cable with Switchcraft 1/4" jacks and Pomona Electronics banana plugs) sounded better than the pricey audiophile cables that we compared them to

I've seen so many of these double-blind tests that come to similar conclusions- one, for instance, used coat hanger wire, which was unanimously determined to sound better than the expensive speaker cable.

Amazingly, the people quoting these tests use them as "proof" that the cable makes no difference in sound.

Really?!

Seems to me if the unanimous consensus was that the coat hanger wire, or the SWR wire, or whatever, sounded better than the expensive cable, the one thing they proved is that there was an audible difference in the sound. Which one sounded better is irrelevant to the fact that there was a difference in sound, which everybody listening picked up on.

Saying that this one sounded better, therefore there's no difference, just does not follow. It's non-sequitur. Faulty logic.

I've been thinking about checking out some different speaker cables to see if that is an element that might improve the sound of my rig.

Ah, and there's the rub.Typically (but not always), a better quality cable will result in a truer, cleaner sound, but that's not always desirable in music production (as opposed to reproduction). Remember that the most sought-after sounds in Rock n' Roll come from equipment performing badly. A tube amp pushed to its limits, a speaker pushed to the point of distortion, etc. In fact, there's a huge market for pedals and effects that are designed to create the sound of equipment performing badly.

Improving the sound of your rig may be exactly what you don't want. It depends on what you're looking for.

.

 

[byacey]

I think I have referred to oxidation of silver in this way before, it's the opposite of the reduction reaction that would reverse the oxidation reaction back to the elemental metal.



The purpose behind the plating (for the most part) is to protect a more active metal with a less active metal. Since the platings are all low activity (i.e. Don't easily oxidize), the issues of dissimilar metals is pretty small.

Gold is very low activity, so is nickel, combining the two on a mated contact pair presents little difficulty. In fact, iirc Gold is often plated over nickel.

I'm not sure about plating gold on nickel, but for PC board copper traces they are often tin plated using fluoroboric acid, followed by gold electroplating with a potassium gold cyanide solution. Gold can't be directly plated on to copper.

 

[Greenstreet]

Agedhorse is right.

.

 

[byacey]

I've seen so many of these double-blind tests that come to similar conclusions- one, for instance, used coat hanger wire, which was unanimously determined to sound better than the expensive speaker cable.

Amazingly, the people quoting these tests use them as "proof" that the cable makes no difference in sound.

Really?!

Seems to me if the unanimous consensus was that the coat hanger wire, or the SWR wire, or whatever, sounded better than the expensive cable, the one thing they proved is that there was an audible difference in the sound. Which one sounded better is irrelevant to the fact that there was a difference in sound, which everybody listening picked up on.

Saying that this one sounded better, therefore there's no difference, just does not follow. It's non-sequitur. Faulty logic.




Ah, and there's the rub.Typically (but not always), a better quality cable will result in a truer, cleaner sound, but that's not always desirable in music production (as opposed to reproduction). Remember that the most sought-after sounds in Rock n' Roll come from equipment performing badly. A tube amp pushed to its limits, a speaker pushed to the point of distortion, etc. In fact, there's a huge market for pedals and effects that are designed to create the sound of equipment performing badly.

Improving the sound of your rig may be exactly what you don't want. It depends on what you're looking for.

.

I mentioned on another thread the coat hanger test. Actually, the coat hanger wire didn't necessarily sound better or worse than the monster cable it was being compared to, it was more of a case that the monster cable sales rep couldn't determine the difference in a blind listening test.

This essentially shot down his whole sales pitch.

 

[Passinwind]

I'm not sure about plating gold on nickel, but for PC board copper traces they are often tin plated using fluoroboric acid, followed by gold electroplating with a potassium gold cyanide solution. Gold can't be directly plated on to copper.

ENIG (gold over nickel) is very common for PCBs these days, especially for those of us who use OSHpark for board prototypes.

 

[Bassist30]

I like this thread. I have been intrigued with the cable differences for a long time. I once bought a Lava cable and it was hard to roll up and eventually stopped working do to mostly singers big feet. It cost me over 110.00 dollars 10 years ago. I was reading an ad where Alain Caron spoke of these cables and took a chance. For one thing it was louder.... I A/B it and it was louder than my other cables. I let a very good guitarist try it and he immediately said it was louder. Now there are others like astropse and the like. They have there fan base who state there is a positive difference. There was even power cables that people like Victor Wooten stated it improved the sound of the amp. So there is a lot of speculation and interest with cables. I am not a person who understands the differences or innovations but there are Bassist who use Meyer cabs, Millennia Pre's and spends thousands for cables. I know this thread started out as a speaker cable but I changed it up just a little. Still can be related to speaker cable.

 

[Dp1363]

To make your cables sound better just boil them! Lol

 

[beans-on-toast]

I'm not sure about plating gold on nickel, but for PC board copper traces they are often tin plated using fluoroboric acid, followed by gold electroplating with a potassium gold cyanide solution. Gold can't be directly plated on to copper.

For the speakons, the contacts are brass, an alloy of copper, zinc, and lead, the contact plating can be several microns of gold or silver depending on the product if precious metals are desired.

Like you said, it isn’t unusual when plating to require layers of different base materials. Whenever I’ve electroplated larger pieces, it’s a messy, smelly business. It’s a lot easier to send it out.

 

[agedhorse]

I like this thread. I have been intrigued with the cable differences for a long time. I once bought a Lava cable and it was hard to roll up and eventually stopped working do to mostly singers big feet. It cost me over 110.00 dollars 10 years ago. I was reading an ad where Alain Caron spoke of these cables and took a chance. For one thing it was louder.... I A/B it and it was louder than my other cables. I let a very good guitarist try it and he immediately said it was louder. Now there are others like astropse and the like. They have there fan base who state there is a positive difference. There was even power cables that people like Victor Wooten stated it improved the sound of the amp. So there is a lot of speculation and interest with cables. I am not a person who understands the differences or innovations but there are Bassist who use Meyer cabs, Millennia Pre's and spends thousands for cables. I know this thread started out as a speaker cable but I changed it up just a little. Still can be related to speaker cable.

Beware of claims of superiority that can not be tested and verified, they are the ingredients of snake oil.

 

[agedhorse]

To make your cables sound better just boil them! Lol

Makes them taste better too!

For the speakons, the contacts are brass, an alloy of copper, zinc, and lead, the contact plating can be several microns of gold or silver depending on the product.

Like you said, it isn’t unusual when plating to require layers of different base materials. Whenever I’ve electroplated large pieces, it’s a messy, smelly business. It’s a lot easier to send it out.

Typically, contact plating is either gold, tin or nickel depending on the application. Nickel is usually used where multiple cycle durability is required.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Let’s throw this in the mix.

I’ve heard it’s not good to mix metals. Meaning, gold connectors are only better if the entire signal path is gold.

What's the best mix for Metal?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I mentioned on another thread the coat hanger test. Actually, the coat hanger wire didn't necessarily sound better or worse than the monster cable it was being compared to, it was more of a case that the monster cable sales rep couldn't determine the difference in a blind listening test.

This essentially shot down his whole sales pitch.

A coat hanger is a great replacement for an automobile antenna.
And you can use it to dry your clothes on the way home from the wet tee-shirt contest.

 

[Bassist30]

Beware of claims of superiority that can not be tested and verified, they are the ingredients of snake oil.[/QUOTE

Yea I know but there is a lot of talk about it. Some are very convinced and hear the difference.

 

[mapleglo]

Yea I know but there is a lot of talk about it. Some are very convinced and hear the difference.

Yes, they claim they can hear a difference. I would point out that in most of these cases, they claim to hear a difference in a very unscientific format. In other words, they know when they are listening to the "high end" cable, compared to the "regular" cable. So it is a biased test. In double-blind listening tests, this would not be the case.

 

[agedhorse]

There are a lot of claims based on "faith" that turn out to be completely false yet have a strong base of followers.

 

[byacey]

Like you said, it isn’t unusual when plating to require layers of different base materials. Whenever I’ve electroplated larger pieces, it’s a messy, smelly business. It’s a lot easier to send it out.

Absolutely, not to mention the danger of cyanide and other dangerous chemicals.

 

[byacey]

A coat hanger is a great replacement for an automobile antenna.
And you can use it to dry your closes on the way home from the wet tee-shirt contest.

Recently I saw an old beater pickup truck with a broken antenna. The owner fastened a spoon to the antenna stub.