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Double Bass Contra never loud enough

Aaron

Aaron

Jun 2, 2001
4,155
35
Seattle, WA
#1
I use a series one combo with a full circle pickup.

I find it a bit weird that these combos are so widely used, but I, personally, struggle to get enough volume in most situations. I play a fairly regular gig in a beer garden with a couple guitarists playing hollowbodies through smaller combos or direct, and it never gets enough volume before the lowend starts clipping (using the high gain input, master volume maxed, gain past 12 o'clock). The bass eq bandwidth seems to be too wide to fix the problem, as cutting it too much makes a really thin and unnatural tone. So I always go through the PA and most of my monitoring is through the monitors. It seems almost pointless to carry the amp to the gig.

When I play with drummers (doesn't matter how quiet), I don't even bother with the contra. I have to use my Acme LowB2 setup.

I can get a natural tone that I really like out of the Contra when in very quiet settings such as inside of a living room. I've seen a lot of folks use them in louder settings than I use mine - do they actually hear what is coming out of the amp rather than the monitors? Does the high pass filter on newer models help cut out the lowend that clips while still maintaining a sound true to the instrument's acoustic timbre?
 
#2
The high pass filter certainly helps get some extra volume. There is a cheap one being sold on this forum. I have a similar problem with my series 2 Contra, but I think you will find that there is actually a fair amount of oomph going out to the crowd, it is just that you can't hear yourself very well. I was at a gig recently where the bass player had a series 3 and after the 1st set he brought out his extension cab, even though where I was sitting the bass sounded huge, and this was with drums, steel, guitar, vocals going on. He got the extra box out as he thought he was way too soft. I have found that standing right on top of the contra gives the best monitoring position sometimes, rather than in front of it.
 
#3
mstclairmiller said:
The high pass filter certainly helps get some extra volume. There is a cheap one being sold on this forum.
Click to expand...
I agree, a HPF can help clear up the mud and help keep your amp & speaker from choking on too much low end, without carving the meat out of your tone. Especially if you can adjust the frequency of the filter. As mentioned, this type of HP filter is available on the Series II and III units, but not the Series I. It would work better I think for what you guys are describing than cutting the bass EQ like you mentioned.

The HPF-Pre mentioned above is not expensive, but by all accounts here on TB, is nicely done and works as advertised. I'd say more about it based on personal experience, but frankly since I bought one I haven't even plugged it in yet to test it out. Too busy noodling around w/ my new Lakland Joe Osborn 5-string. :bassist:
mstclairmiller said:
I have found that standing right on top of the contra gives the best monitoring position sometimes, rather than in front of it.
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My experience w/ my Series I was different. I always liked to have that front-firing 5" driver pointing at me, to hear the mids and highs better, and help with clarity and articulation. In fact, the further away from it I got (up to say 10-15 feet), the more I think I was able to hear in terms of a full, balanced sound. Hearing those mids was crucial to me to help w/ pitch definition and intonation. I think this jives w/ your experience listening to the chap with the Series III from out in the audience.

Just my experience with it though. I had one for 7 years until I sold it. (In hindsight, I might not have sold it if I had that HPF-Pre in hand ...).
 
#4
I would call fdeck's HPF-Pre "inexpensive" and not "cheap." (Different connotation entirely!) :) The price may be low but it is a high-class circuit that works and sounds great.
 
#7
Jazz Ad said:
It seems to be the general consensus that the Contra is never loud enough.
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Well, I would say rather that opinions seem to vary. I'd hesitate to say as you did that there's a "general concensus" on this one. And "never" is a strong word.

The discussion has been around a long time on TB. If it were that clear cut and there was such a broad concensus, the debate and the related posts would have died out a long time ago.

The product has also evolved over time, and the Series III reportedly boasts many advantages over the prior models.

Check out the post prior to yours from David K, for example.
 
#8
Jazz Ad said:
It seems to be the general consensus that the Contra is never loud enough.
Click to expand...
I note that your profile does not include doublebass. Perhaps a Contra may not be loud enough for an EB player, but I find my Series III Coda far more than loud enough for all of my jobs playing doublebass. There may be some disagreement about the potential loudness (particularly with regard to Series I combos), but certainly no "general consensus".
 
#9
Yeah it's clearly aimed at double bass players.
I never owned a Contra, just played briefly on one.
2 URB player friends of mine bought and didn't keep it for this very reason. Even for reinforcement in clubs it didn't cut through once the drummer got a bit angry.
I've seen many complaints about this on forums too, hence my comment.
 
#10
Jazz Ad said:
It seems to be the general consensus that the Contra is never loud enough.
Click to expand...
I think some minds might change if they looked at the amp a bit differently. The combo feature is convenient, but anyone expecting a 10, 5, and tweeter to be loud enough in any situation needs to wake up and put the amp to work driving some larger speakers in an extension cab. It's a convenient package, but if you want it really loud, the extension cab is necessary. I have a Coda Series III. I don't know about the comparative power ratings to older AI gear, but it drives an Ampeg PB212H cab just as loudly as the Ampeg PB800 head. Not surprising since the AI is 500W with the extension and the PB800 is 500W at 4 Ohms. "Never" is completely exclusive, which might be truer if "often" were substituted. I think the benefit of the AI combos, either the Contra or Coda is that at 20 lbs., one doesn't need to take up too much space or haul a truck load of gear to a gig that just needs a good solid boost and not extreme amplification. It's the small combo amp that can get big if needed by simply adding an extension.

I'm actually heading to a gig now where the Coda will be fine in combo mode without an extension and Sunday morning I'll be doing another gig where the extension would be just too much and totally unnecessary. So the consensus spoken of is a stretch.
 
#11
I bought a Series I as soon as they were available, direct from AI, and with the Contra extension. It has been gigged beaucoup over the years with never a hiccup, but sometimes I do get complaints about stage volume. The people I play with are just too damned loud.

But complaints are not good, so I`m thinking of ordering up one of the Wizzy 12" M-lines. Any experience with this rig? Hoping to double with it also.
 
#12
Paul New said:
I bought a Series I as soon as they were available, direct from AI, and with the Contra extension. It has been gigged beaucoup over the years with never a hiccup, but sometimes I do get complaints about stage volume. The people I play with are just too damned loud.

But complaints are not good, so I`m thinking of ordering up one of the Wizzy 12" M-lines. Any experience with this rig? Hoping to double with it also.
Click to expand...
Since you've been using a Series I Contra for all these years, you must like the sound. Before you buy another extension speaker, do yourself a favor and try out a 20lb Series III Contra or Coda. I have a Series III Coda and bought an Acme B1 extension speaker (before the Series III arrived), thinking that I would need it for loud jobs after 6-7 years playing with a Series I Contra. Except for 4 extra loud jobs, the Acme speaker has been covered up holding a flower vase for most of the past 2 years even though I play a lot of big band jobs. With over double the power and HP and notch filters, the Series III gives you (much) more of that same great AI sound.
 
#14
Bob Branstetter said:
Since you've been using a Series I Contra for all these years, you must like the sound. Before you buy another extension speaker, do yourself a favor and try out a 20lb Series III Contra or Coda. I have a Series III Coda and bought an Acme B1 extension speaker (before the Series III arrived), thinking that I would need it for loud jobs after 6-7 years playing with a Series I Contra. Except for 4 extra loud jobs, the Acme speaker has been covered up holding a flower vase for most of the past 2 years even though I play a lot of big band jobs. With over double the power and HP and notch filters, the Series III gives you (much) more of that same great AI sound.
Click to expand...

I didn`t realize that the series III stuff is double the power. Anyway, I`ve already ordered the M-line, and I guess now have to buy a new Contra too.
 
#15
If you get the Coda instead of the Contra, you get some bonuses plus the ability to mix two different pickups (for instance a phantom powered mic and a piezo) right in the amp. This eliminates the need and bulk of the blender boxes. The two channels can be also be configured to produce stereo output via an external amp. And even though you might think you'd never use these, there are 6 really nice sounding Alesis effects. I thought these effects were superfluous, but after trying them out, the chorus effect blended in just a little can be quite nice for arco use. The reverb settings are nice if you ever need to run a vocal mic through the system.
 
#16
I'm a noob at sound modification. Can somebody do a quick and dirty on how Ohms and Watts interrelate when it comes to cab extensions and amp heads? Specifically I'd like to know if a Wizzy 112 would work as an extension cab to a Contra Series III combo (I keep hearing things like rated at 500watts at 2 Ohms, and 400 Watts at 4 Ohms -- the Wizzy CXL-112 is 350 Watts at 8 Ohms -- does this mean the Contra will run out of steam trying to push this speaker? Can it even be hooked up?). Thanks.
Mike
 
#17
An 8 Ohm extension cabinet will be no problem with the Contra. You could even safely use a 4 Ohm extension cab. In fact, AI's extension cabinets are 4 Ohms. I'm sure there is a sticky somewhere that explains resistance and wattage better than I could.

dmperry24 said:
I'm a noob at sound modification. Can somebody do a quick and dirty on how Ohms and Watts interrelate when it comes to cab extensions and amp heads? Specifically I'd like to know if a Wizzy 112 would work as an extension cab to a Contra Series III combo (I keep hearing things like rated at 500watts at 2 Ohms, and 400 Watts at 4 Ohms -- the Wizzy CXL-112 is 350 Watts at 8 Ohms -- does this mean the Contra will run out of steam trying to push this speaker? Can it even be hooked up?). Thanks.
Mike
Click to expand...
 
#18
yo perry.

imagine you have an amp rated 300W at 4ohms:

1. hook up a single 4ohm cab, you'll be using 300W.

2. hook up a single 8ohm cab, you'll be using 150W.

3. hook up two 8ohm cabs (each cab connected to the amplifier) and you'll be using 300W.

this is just to get you started. do search and retrieve tons of experienced knowledge.
 
#20
dmperry24 said:
I'm a noob at sound modification. Can somebody do a quick and dirty on how Ohms and Watts interrelate when it comes to cab extensions and amp heads? Specifically I'd like to know if a Wizzy 112 would work as an extension cab to a Contra Series III combo (I keep hearing things like rated at 500watts at 2 Ohms, and 400 Watts at 4 Ohms -- the Wizzy CXL-112 is 350 Watts at 8 Ohms -- does this mean the Contra will run out of steam trying to push this speaker? Can it even be hooked up?). Thanks.
Mike
Click to expand...
Mike, I think the Wizzy is going to be much louder than the Contra like this. The efficiency of the two speakers is pretty different. Might work for you, might not. But they won't put out the same perceived volumes, and I don't know how you would adjust or blend their relative volumes.

That said, I think there are at least two people who have posted somewhere within this forum in the last 30 days or so stating that they bought a Wizzy M-line as an extension cab for the Contra, and like it.
 

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