Double Bass Contra never loud enough

[tornadobass]

Mike, I think the Wizzy is going to be much louder than the Contra like this. The efficiency of the two speakers is pretty different. Might work for you, might not. But they won't put out the same perceived volumes, and I don't know how you would adjust or blend their relative volumes.

I tried this comparison earlier in the week and posted on it. The Wizzy is much, much louder than the AI cab. I first played them both together and then just the Contra cab alone. It was almost like I couldn't hear it after being hooked up with the Wizzy. If you had the combo, this would certainly be a way to get more volume. If you had the EX cab, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort to use both together.

 

[Mike Goodbar]

I may have posted this before, but here goes anyway.

When I first started using the Contra (I have a Series II), I was a bit disappointed, too. Compliments on my sound kept rolling in, but I was missing something.

I figured out that I was still subconciously expecting my bass to sound like a sort of modified electric bass, just like it sounded with my old setup. I was expecting that punchy, upfront, honky electricky sound that I had gotten accustomed to over the years, but wasn't getting it.

I gradually surrendered to the fact that the amp wasn't going to make my upright bass sound like an electric bass no matter how much knob-twiddling and floor surface modifying I did, or perhaps more important, that it wasn't going to make my bass sound BETTER than it did without any amplification. Yes, my G-string sounds a bit thin through the AI, but it sounds thin WITHOUT the AI.

My experience with volume is similar to some others here; I think I'm getting swamped, but folks in the audience tell me they can hear me loud and clear.

 

[DocBop]

First I've never played any AI gear, but wonder if people aren't used to a bottom firing speaker. So comparing to a front loaded speaker while standing by it isn't going to work. As the previous poster said didn't sounds good to him, but audience says it sounds great. So only way to compare is to get way from them when testing.

 

[bass dan]

i will have to agree with mike goodbar as far as expecting a more "electric" sound that some folks ears could be more accustumed to. i have added a wizzy m-line as a extention speaker that really has made my contra sereies II way more versitile. i can play in louder bars and "unacoustic" situations and am able to hear my bass in the mix really well and with a really pleasing sound to the ears. that being said i think the contra performs really well in a lower volume situation when the other instruments are being played acoustically or with minimal amplification, the contra by itself cannot compete with loud guitars or drums. i personally dont like the sound of my bass amplified by itself in any situation. the contra as well as the wizzy really shine in a mix of music. if i play my bass at home in the living room with the contra or with the wizzy i usually find myself needing to turn the volume down to tolerate it. but in the right situation the contra is a wonderful amp for playing live with other musicians, and when the situation is louder add the extention cab. this has been my experience with the contra and it has worked well for me. all of this is of course IMO, and IME.

 

[bolo]

I bought a Series I as soon as they were available, direct from AI, and with the Contra extension. It has been gigged beaucoup over the years with never a hiccup, but sometimes I do get complaints about stage volume. The people I play with are just too damned loud.

But complaints are not good, so I`m thinking of ordering up one of the Wizzy 12" M-lines. Any experience with this rig? Hoping to double with it also.

Paul, my experiences are very similar to yours. Including the "too damned loud" thing. LOL. I owned a Series I Contra for 7 years, and the Contra extension cab for 5. Bought them direct from Rick and Paul in Durham as a walk-in customer. Here's my little story.

First, re: the Wizzy, 'cuz I have two of them (regular 12 and M-line) - There are a couple of recent posts somewhere in this forum where people are using the M-line as an extension for their Contra and reporting good results. And I really like my M-line (with a Focus 2R) for DB, and have been getting a lot of compliments recently on my sound (and playing ... good for me ).

BUT ... If you basically dig the Contra, then you might also want to consider a much more modest investment and try out the high pass filter unit called called the HPF-Pre from fdeck. It is only $50 + $5 for shipping. I sold my Series I Contra and Contra EX extension cab before I bought my HPF-Pre, so I never had a chance to try this out. But I'm guessing ... guessing mind you ... that with a high pass filter in front of a Series I, you could probably get a lot more useable volume out of it before it gets too muddy and flabby. I think this is what causes the Series I to get kind of overtaxed in the low end. And rolling off the bass EQ knob just does not have the same effect as a HPF. I bet your bandmates (and you) would be able to hear your rig better with a HP filter in front. Still kind of guessing about this though ...

Since I bought my Focus 2R III, I have really come to appreciate what a HPF can do to help you cut through in louder situations, and just clean up the low end thud from a piezo pickup in general, while still maintaining a pretty natural sound. My bandmates have noticed too. And I can see with my own eyes that it dramatically lessens speaker excursion.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Oops. I see now you already ordered an M-line. Well, enjoy.

 

[bolo]

I may have posted this before, but here goes anyway.

When I first started using the Contra (I have a Series II), I was a bit disappointed, too. Compliments on my sound kept rolling in, but I was missing something.

I figured out that I was still subconciously expecting my bass to sound like a sort of modified electric bass, just like it sounded with my old setup. I was expecting that punchy, upfront, honky electricky sound that I had gotten accustomed to over the years, but wasn't getting it.

I gradually surrendered to the fact that the amp wasn't going to make my upright bass sound like an electric bass no matter how much knob-twiddling and floor surface modifying I did, or perhaps more important, that it wasn't going to make my bass sound BETTER than it did without any amplification. Yes, my G-string sounds a bit thin through the AI, but it sounds thin WITHOUT the AI.

My experience with volume is similar to some others here; I think I'm getting swamped, but folks in the audience tell me they can hear me loud and clear.

I think Mike made some really good points. I am not gonna get into the whole down-firing vs. front-firing thing, but if you haven’t read the latest AI newsletter, it is very informative, whether you agree with it or not. The defense / explanation of the down-firing design is the last section.

 

[MT Spaces]

.... I am not gonna get into the whole down-firing vs. front-firing thing, but if you haven’t read the latest AI newsletter, it is very informative, whether you agree with it or not. The defense / explanation of the down-firing design is the last section.

Yo Bolo ..... Thanks a bunch for posting this AI Newsletter link . I'm stoked to see that they have a FAQ section about the HP and notch filters and their use. Weren't we all talking about this and hoping to see this info many moons ago? I guess I missed this Spring 2007 newsletter. If I remember correctly, you took the direct guerilla approach and went to the factory and asked them the questions in person . More info to help me steer my Coda in the right direction.

 

[bolo]

Bob, you're welcome. Heck, I even gave you some credit pal. Long time ago.

Looky here.

 

[Paul New]

-----------------------------------------------------------

Oops. I see now you already ordered an M-line. Well, enjoy.

Yes, might bite the bullet and order a Series III Contra too.

Want to buy a Series I and Ex so you can do the HPF experiment?

 

[DaveAceofBass]

Try plugging in an extension speaker like an Acme B-1 or a Bag End S15X-D. If it's still too quiet, go buy a bass guitar and a rig, cause you're playing too loud on the upright. (No offense)

 

[bolo]

Yes, might bite the bullet and order a Series III Contra too.

Actually I have thought about buying a Series III extension cab too, and pairing it w/ my Focus 2R to create a kind of super-Coda. Especially now that I know how to use a high pass filter.

There are a lot of things about my old AI cabs that I really liked. I just seem to get better results in most of my gigging situations (which are, like you said, too damned loud) w/ EA cabs. But for the more genteel settings, the AI was really cool. A diffused, natural sound that I definitely liked. Really kind of hated to part with them, but the two fellas who bought them seemed really happy with 'em. And I was just accumulating too much s&^t.