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Controlling band leader

#21
I don't mind a control freak BL, but:

You'd better know what you're talking about.
If you want to control my playing, you'd better be able to play better than I do.
Understand that this is a musical organization and outside of that area, you have no control over me.
You can get paid more, but pay me well.
If you're in charge fine, I hope we get enough gigs to make it work.
Problems at gigs are YOUR problem to solve.
 
#22
I've always been the band leader, and my biggest fault is that I'm TOO participative, allowing the band to dictate more than they should to me, the band leader -- so I can treat them all as "fairly" as possible. I'm over that now.

My take on this guy is that he's done this wrong. He should've made his expectations of you very clear in the ad or when he first spoke to you. He would have told you before the audition that there would be no decision made at the audition -- he would wait until after the audition when he can talk to the guys in the band. Often, I have three guys come to the audition, and I also tell each candidate that there may be more guys there auditioning, so I will get back to them one way or the other within a day or two of the audition.

If the audition passed, I would tell the successful candidate over the phone, and orient him to some of the other "rules" we have such as how people get paid, how we rehearse etcetera, and see if the successful candidate is OK with that. If he is, then he's in the band and I don't look back.

The only time I would then fire him would be if there is strange behavior, unavailability, or just not getting along with the other guys. This has never happened, except for unavailability.

In short, he's the kind of band leader I'm not sure I would want to work with.
 
#23
BassChuck said:
I don't mind a control freak BL, but:

You'd better know what you're talking about.
If you want to control my playing, you'd better be able to play better than I do.
Understand that this is a musical organization and outside of that area, you have no control over me.
You can get paid more, but pay me well.
If you're in charge fine, I hope we get enough gigs to make it work.
Problems at gigs are YOUR problem to solve.
Click to expand...

I agree whole heartedly with this, however IMHO

COMPENSATION is the operative here.
Are you paying me enough to compensate for dealing with your B.S.?

or NOT.
 
#24
+1 what's the compensation? If rehearsals are paid, then hey, "I'm happy to run through that part you're messing up 100 times, just nod when you're ready to go". If not, I'm with fdeck, "sounds like you guys need to take that home and woodshed it for a while, let's move on to the next song - oh, and if you don't mind, lets keep going through each song like it's a gig, and if someone messes up a part, we keep going and they fudge to keep up, okay?"
 
#25
Some band leaders are very controlling. If they're going to be successful, they need to make it worthwhile to the rank & file in ways other than having musical input. Sometimes they're such a great player/singer that it's worth putting up with whatever, just to be part of it all. Sometimes, they pay very well.

Sometimes, unfortunately, it's nothing.
 
#31
Twobass said:
Also while it's not my thing and I don't have a problem with it, this guy smokes a lot of weed. I don't know if that matters or not.
Click to expand...

It might have some correlation to the pay & number of gigs.

Think about the personal qualities necessary for somebody to get lots of good-paying gigs.

Now, think about the qualities of somebody who smokes a lot of weed.
 
#34
Doc Ellis said:
...wait... let me get my deceased equine flagellation device.
Click to expand...

Haha! Well played....

So here's an interesting angle...and as someone who's been in many situations with controlling band leaders, I'd be curious to hear opinions:

Is there a prominent personality type among bassists which might, in a sense, "ask for" or require a leader who takes control (albeit too much)? And for that matter, what is the most common personality type among band leaders? In other words, why does this seem like such a common situation?

I hope I don't derail the thread too much by posting this but after reading about so many bands and posting many similar complaints myself, I'd be curious to deconstruct this topic a bit.
 
#35
I don't know if bass players are any more pliant than anyone else, but some people are more leaders and some more followers. Some people have a clear vision of the whole band and what they think the music should sound like beyond their own parts. I guess how well that is received just depends on the dynamics of the band and the personalities of the people.

If someone has a clear vision of things should sound like and can communicate that clearly, then it can make for a really effective way to make a cohesive band sound. That's why the producer on a record is such an important part of how hit records get made. Some band leaders are really, in effect, producers, even if it is early on in the process of making music.

What I am saying based on what I have heard about your (Hernameisrio's) situation is that if you respect the band leaders overall vision and trust that he knows what he is doing, then it might be good to at least seriously consider what he is asking you to do. If you are used to having more creative input, and want to keep that, I would keep voicing your concerns to the band leader. If you get a feel that you will never get the creative control you desire, and aren't willing to play the role of a hired bass player, then you should let everyone know that. Then again, you may be able to have a happy role in the band just as a bass player that plays the parts as designed by the bandleader. Try to get a feel of how things will go moving forward, don't be afraid to just be straight with the guy.

Edit: I thought I was replying to Hernameisrio in a different thread, the one where she is asking about the band leader and pick, doh.
 
#37
Twobass said:
He makes us go through parts of songs over and over, when it's usually him or the singer that keeps getting it wrong.
Click to expand...
I fail to see the problem with this. If one or more member is having trouble with a part or change the best way to work on that is as a band. For those who aren't having a problem additional practice isn't going to hurt.

Also, in all my years in bands I never stated that someone was the one messing up (unless it was me). I always took that view that we aren't getting it right so we have to work on it.
 
#38
Twobass said:
He makes us go through parts of songs over and over, when it's usually him or the singer that keeps getting it wrong.
Click to expand...

Those guys are using rehearsal as a practice. They need to practice on their own so the band goes through the song once or twice and moves on.

If and when you do leave, that may be a good point to bring up to let the BL know that you're not a good fit with the band. Wish them well.

Be sure and get each members contact info before you leave and make sure your equipment is in your possession.
 
#39
hernameisrio said:
And for that matter, what is the most common personality type among band leaders? In other words, why does this seem like such a common situation?
Click to expand...

IME, this situation is not limited to bands. Based on my experiences with many, many entrepreneur type business owners, the controlling and many times irrational atmosphere is prevalent.
 

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