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Controlling band leader

#61
JohnMCA72 said:
I've never done this, or even heard of it being done, but has anybody used a "fine" system, where anybody who doesn't know their part (or maybe commits some other offense against the band's best interests) puts a dollar into a band kitty?
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That only works if there is a lot of money flowing in the band. Working 7 nights a week, getting paid for every night. ie. cruise ship band, casino house band, theatre pit band etc... usually the fines are "beer fines" or something that the band enjoys.

Long ago, famous people making money did do that, like Ike Turner and James Brown... maybe it is still done now... but really, the money has to be flowing in for everyone, in order for this to work.
Or, everyone has great day jobs, and the band is a fun social club, and people put money into the kitty and have fun with it later. The fine system being part of the fun.
 
#62
fdeck said:
Something that remains unspoken in this thread is the musical ability of the bandleader. The music will never be better than the quality of their compositions and their basic musical chops.

This is a case where you could let them work on their tunes in a smaller group, and then pull you in once they are within striking range of a paid gig.
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Tower of Power's leader, Emilio Castillo, is the epitome of the iron fist in the velvet glove (it's his way or the highway), and despite the fact that he admits he's the weakest player in the band, there's no shortage of musicians eager to play with the band. Sometimes the thing that makes a BL successful may be hard to define, but their success is undeniable.
 
#64
I think there's a lot of truth in "how" you do things being important.

When we left GRB and formed TBD, we all kinda went into it with the idea that there would be no official "band leader". Each would share parts, etc....

Over a few weeks, I was asked to do a little more and a little more. Last week the other 4 ganged up on me and demoted me to BL for the group. I kinda didn't want to do it, I was the MD in the last band. But realistically, I was the one who seemed to have the most interest in doing what had to be done.

So we have rehearsal tonight. There has been a minor issue that has cropped up that I have to address. One of our guitarists has recently started taking "liberties" in his playing....which normally would be pretty cool if we did a jam band thing, but what he's doing in particular is having a real disruptive effect on the rest of us and what we play. He just started doing this when we added the second guitarist.

I will have to talk to him about it, and having been with this guy for a while, I also know he's fairly sensitive......so HOW I approach this will be crucial in having a positive outcome. He's a great guy, excellent player, and hopefully the conversation will go well.
 
#68
IME, In the ig scheme of things, for every controlling band leader out there, there's a musician that's difficult to manage.

Sometimes it's the eye of the beholder. For some folks, any type of outside input is viewed as controlling. What one may see as controlling, another may see as organized. Not that there aren't truly controlling people out there, but there's also people who are anti authority as well.
 
#70
jive1 said:
IME, In the ig scheme of things, for every controlling band leader out there, there's a musician that's difficult to manage.

Sometimes it's the eye of the beholder. For some folks, any type of outside input is viewed as controlling. What one may see as controlling, another may see as organized. Not that there aren't truly controlling people out there, but there's also people who are anti authority as well.
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This is very true. In my last band, we had both of these people. A band leader who was so controlling he told me that he didn't want me sending any e-mails to any of the other members unless he read them first and said it was okay. And we had a guitarist who was completely unmanageable, had no discipline, was very outspoken (usually without cause or justification), had weekly excuses, and used our rehearsal time as his personal practice time. The two hated each other, really. Polar opposites.

I think that what might be viewed as organized to one might seem controlling to another. What is viewed as allowing creative liberty by one might be viewed as complete lack of focus by another. It's all how the individual views the situation.

On a side note; the conversation I was planning to have with our guitarist never happened. Didn't need to. He reeled it in on his own and everything went smooth as silk.
 
#73
It looks like my time is this band is ending. I've played 4 gigs with them and one gig we got paid a decent amount. I haven't seen a dime because we had to pay the light guy and the sax guy and the rehearsal space. The last gig we played was bad, singer forgetting words the BL wanting to be the front man, very long pauses between songs.

Just overall a very unprofessional gig, that reflects badly on everyone in the band. So bad that I want to quit lol. Oh well time to start over.
 
#76
The best BL I ever worked for was skilled, organized, and successful. At the Sunday gig each player received an envelope with an expanded schedule, addresses, set up time, when and how much you would be paid, any attire requirements etc. He spoke with each member separately and asked them to “touch up” on certain songs, told them where they did well, etc. I, in turn learned my stuff, was there early or on time, did what he asked, and smiled.

The drummer would occasionally get a bit torqued about the pay being exact. If he was to receive $82.86 that is what he would receive, not rounded up to $83. I thought about it one night on the way home, and decided that if that is the biggest conflict a band has, then life is pretty good.
 
#77
In my band, BL (lead guitarist) and lead vocalist/rhythm guitarist are married. They both tried to tell me that I can't post video MY wife shot of our last gig with MY camera on MY Facebook page. Told them they'd better start looking for another bass player if that's their attitude. They backed off.
 
#78
Twobass said:
"well we'll let you play the show and we'll see what happens". The other people in the band pretty much said that I'm in regardless of that gig
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Yeah, this is called "sub for me once and let's see how it goes." It's a high standard and an audition tool. Unreasonable? I don't think so, but it's really up to you.

I'm finding out that this guy is a total control freak, I've met a few and he's at a different level. He makes us go through parts of songs over and over, when it's usually him or the singer that keeps getting it wrong
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SO, it sounds like he wants to iron out the wrinkles, especially his own. Yep, that's a high standard. Too high? That's your call.

Has anyone ever encountered a band leader who wants to control everything?
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Yes. Me.

I have similarly high standards. Not unreasonable, in my opinion, not impossible either. But guaranteed to make my band the best it can be. And the rewards include the better rooms for the better money, and a fair amount of private upscale gigs with lots of great referrals to go along with them.

Essentially, you have to decide whether this band leader is an impossible to please perfectionist with ridiculous standards on a control freak power trip, or if he's got high standards designed to result in lots of wins for you and the band.

Good luck with it.
 
#79
Twobass said:
It looks like my time is this band is ending. I've played 4 gigs with them and one gig we got paid a decent amount. I haven't seen a dime because we had to pay the light guy and the sax guy and the rehearsal space. The last gig we played was bad, singer forgetting words the BL wanting to be the front man, very long pauses between songs.

Just overall a very unprofessional gig, that reflects badly on everyone in the band. So bad that I want to quit lol. Oh well time to start over.
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Wow.

Well, it would seem BL needs to bump his standards up just a wee bit higher in certain areas.

Maybe you can help him with that.
 
#80
electracoyote said:
SO, it sounds like he wants to iron out the wrinkles, especially his own. Yep, that's a high standard. Too high? That's your call.
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If ironing out the wrinkles means that he didn't practice the song at home and is using the rehearsal time to learn the song, then yea that's too high. Do your homework at home, we shouldn't need to play a easy song 10 times to get it right, I'm not talking about a Zappa or Dream Theater song.

I'm all on board on working out the song to get it right, it's just that most of the songs that we are doing are three chord songs, nothing too difficult. We just have a lot of wasted time at rehearsal, going over the same things.
 

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