My band has some shows coming up in smallish clubs, and I always seem to struggle with being heard without being too loud on stage. We have small cheap subs, and use them just for kick. Would like to hear others solutions to this issue.
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Controlling stage volume when you are not coming through the PA?
- Thread starter Marley's Ghost
- Start date
For one thing, I use a stand to raise my cab up higher. That way, when I'm standing right in front of it (small clubs have small stages), I can really hear it well, so i can back off on the volume a good bit and still hear myself but not dominate the room. It makes all the difference in the world.
If it's a crappy sounding room and i'm singing a lot, I'll use in-ear monitors and feed my bass through them. I use a relatively cheap but reliable hardwired system that also sends my bass out through the same multiwire cable so I only have one cable to worry about on stage. Then i can have my bass as loud as i want through my in-ears.
The fewer monitors you have on stage, the less noise and more clarity you'll have. But lots of folks hate in-ears and i can't blame them.
As far as drummers, there's little you can do. IEMs help cut the volume in your own ears, but that won't help the volume for the audience. it's hard to get a drummer to rock quietly.
Sometimes just putting in an earplug in the ear that's facing the drummer will help cut the noise enough that you can hear your own low end better. They're almost free, so it's worth a try.
Also, in small clubs we don't mic the kick. No need to do that in a small room, IMO.
If it's a crappy sounding room and i'm singing a lot, I'll use in-ear monitors and feed my bass through them. I use a relatively cheap but reliable hardwired system that also sends my bass out through the same multiwire cable so I only have one cable to worry about on stage. Then i can have my bass as loud as i want through my in-ears.
The fewer monitors you have on stage, the less noise and more clarity you'll have. But lots of folks hate in-ears and i can't blame them.
As far as drummers, there's little you can do. IEMs help cut the volume in your own ears, but that won't help the volume for the audience. it's hard to get a drummer to rock quietly.
Sometimes just putting in an earplug in the ear that's facing the drummer will help cut the noise enough that you can hear your own low end better. They're almost free, so it's worth a try.
Also, in small clubs we don't mic the kick. No need to do that in a small room, IMO.
If the place is big enough you need to run the kick through the PA, you need to run the bass through the PA.
Turn your amp up to an appropriate stage volume, then use the PA for the extra you need.
Turn your amp up to an appropriate stage volume, then use the PA for the extra you need.
I think he's saying that he's struggling to be heard out front without being TOO loud ONSTAGE, So I would've thought the opposite of some posts above,
Needs - to maybe angle the bass to point a bit AWAY from the band members
- keep it ON the floor so the bass actually goes PAST him/band members a little more & still goes OK out to the crowd.
- possibly place yr rig closer to the front of the stage, therefore (hopefully) projecting into the audience, while NOT so much onstage
Then if I'm wrong & it IS the other way around- then yes- sit the rog on a stand etc... as above!
Needs - to maybe angle the bass to point a bit AWAY from the band members
- keep it ON the floor so the bass actually goes PAST him/band members a little more & still goes OK out to the crowd.
- possibly place yr rig closer to the front of the stage, therefore (hopefully) projecting into the audience, while NOT so much onstage
Then if I'm wrong & it IS the other way around- then yes- sit the rog on a stand etc... as above!
Seems to me that if he needs to bring down his stage volume, yet be heard better out front - and there's kick going thru a sub - the only answer would be to also run the bass thru the sub, and reduce his stage volume...
- georgestrings
- georgestrings
Depends on what's going on, OP wasn't giving a lot of details.
I was in a band that put everyone through the PA to control stage volume, except the bass
rollno, so I assumed that was what he was suggesting. In that case, there's no way he's going to be able to fill the room without overwhelming all the other instruments/vocals on stage that have benefit of pa support (assuming they take advantage of PA support and actually turn down, that's not a given with guitards).But except for that case, I agree with you...
Randy
I'm assuming he means being heard (in the room) without being too loud on stage. Not that he can't hear himself on stage... If I'm wrong about that, great advice.
I personally think a lot of the ampeg 8x10 "tone" is a result of the cab being tall enough to hit your ears instead of your ass with some on-axis sound. raising your cab to closer to ear level accomplishes the same thing.
I often bring my "monster" 1500w 6 foot tall bass rig to quiet gigs, since the speakers are at ear level, I can play quieter and still hear myself compared to a small amp firing into my ass.
Randy
Sorry to be late back to my own thread 
Stevesux had it right, I was referring to blowing out stage volume to project into the audience. I am getting complaints from bandmates on stage levels. :scowl:
Stevesux had it right, I was referring to blowing out stage volume to project into the audience. I am getting complaints from bandmates on stage levels. :scowl:
rockstarbassist
Inactive
^^^
these.
Even w/out subs, this shouldn't be much of an issue.
More stage volume or even perceived volume = less thru PA and less heard in FOH. Sad but true rule.
Been bringing only 1 PH212 cab to the last few shows and amazingly, both the band and our regulars have commented about how the bass is "magically" in the mix more now it seems.
I just remove the back 2 casters and tilt it up. Been working great.
I had a similar problem in that the drummer in my band was getting killed with slap back from bass volume in small venues and also in one outdoor setting where we would typically set up in front of a large cathedral type window and throw the sound down to a marina on a lake.
I solved both challenges by buying a 2X10 extension cab and placing it stage opposite on the outside, IE: ..... in about the same place in relation to the PA subs and mains as my 4X10 stack, but opposite side of the stage. The bottom of the stack sits on the floor. The 2X10 extension sits on the floor.
This gave the bass greater dispersal through the whole stage set up and allowed me to get the same depth and tone and run volume a couple of notches lower. The mix became better, all the band got what they wanted and needed from the bass, I hear myself better and the mix to the audience is better. The overall sound of the band is fattened and once the mix is set, no one competes for volume.
Problem solved.
Another note: I set up on stage right, next to the rhythm guitar player, who is next to the drummer. The lead guitarist is stage left. I always set the bass amp up two to three feet farther back on the stage than the rhythm player and angle my stack more straight ahead rather than to an inside angle. This gets me a bit closer to the drummer and gives me a clear line of vision to him. This angling is important, because the rhythm player most always angles his amp slightly inward so the lead player picks up the fat in the mix from him as well as from monitors. So, as I need to hear myself better, because the angles of the rhythm amp and the bass amp are different I can hear the bass better back at the amp when I'm grooving with the drummer or on the mic line when I'm singing (mostly harmonies). And, if I need to hear more from the rhythm player I can always take a step to my left and get more in his angle. Of course, if we've got a good monitor mix all this maneuvering is less necessary, but the angling is important because we seldom support the bass through the PA.
Hope this helps. If you want more detail on the equipment or other detail, let me know and I'll elaborate.
Koog.
I solved both challenges by buying a 2X10 extension cab and placing it stage opposite on the outside, IE: ..... in about the same place in relation to the PA subs and mains as my 4X10 stack, but opposite side of the stage. The bottom of the stack sits on the floor. The 2X10 extension sits on the floor.
This gave the bass greater dispersal through the whole stage set up and allowed me to get the same depth and tone and run volume a couple of notches lower. The mix became better, all the band got what they wanted and needed from the bass, I hear myself better and the mix to the audience is better. The overall sound of the band is fattened and once the mix is set, no one competes for volume.
Problem solved.
Another note: I set up on stage right, next to the rhythm guitar player, who is next to the drummer. The lead guitarist is stage left. I always set the bass amp up two to three feet farther back on the stage than the rhythm player and angle my stack more straight ahead rather than to an inside angle. This gets me a bit closer to the drummer and gives me a clear line of vision to him. This angling is important, because the rhythm player most always angles his amp slightly inward so the lead player picks up the fat in the mix from him as well as from monitors. So, as I need to hear myself better, because the angles of the rhythm amp and the bass amp are different I can hear the bass better back at the amp when I'm grooving with the drummer or on the mic line when I'm singing (mostly harmonies). And, if I need to hear more from the rhythm player I can always take a step to my left and get more in his angle. Of course, if we've got a good monitor mix all this maneuvering is less necessary, but the angling is important because we seldom support the bass through the PA.
Hope this helps. If you want more detail on the equipment or other detail, let me know and I'll elaborate.
Koog.
Kickback cabinet and move it in front of you... youll get enough to hear yourself.
When playing small venues or with acoustic soloists (temporary duo) ... I'll put the amp in front of us - not behind.
Tim
When playing small venues or with acoustic soloists (temporary duo) ... I'll put the amp in front of us - not behind.
Tim
gnjpowell
Inactive
- Nov 12, 2010
- 562
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Unfortunately bass guitar does not sound very good through many lower-end PAs especially without subs and good subs that that. You need some really good subs for bass guitar to sound great. On the other hand augmenting the kick with some PA & a little EQ is not as difficult to get to sound good. If bass guitar sounded great through most subs we'd prolly see more bassists using subs as bass guitar speakers... but we don't.
The only problem I can remember having with too loud stage volume came from trying to accomodate a drummer. Even though I was playing through a big rig at the time he always complained he couldn't hear me and as we all know there is no volume control on a drum kit and this guy was loud.
The room volume was fine in a small venue even without subs so kicking it up just to please him ruined the mix for everyone else. We decided to approach that by just running a powered monitor off my head and putting it in his coop. That way he could turn me up as much as wanted to without my having to increase my stage volume. Problem solved.
The room volume was fine in a small venue even without subs so kicking it up just to please him ruined the mix for everyone else. We decided to approach that by just running a powered monitor off my head and putting it in his coop. That way he could turn me up as much as wanted to without my having to increase my stage volume. Problem solved.
