Controlling stage volume when you are not coming through the PA?

[walterw]

If bass guitar sounded great through most subs we'd prolly see more bassists using subs as bass guitar speakers... but we don't.

that doesn't quite make sense;

nothing sounds good "through subs" except maybe some electronic dance effects.

stuff sounds good through whole systems, including subs.

if a particular stank sub is enough to carry a bit of kick drum and the bass needs to be louder out front without being too loud on stage, there's no reason not to sneak a little bit of bass into the PA, tops, sub and all.

 

[uhdinator]

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[Marley's Ghost]

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Nice drawing. Printed it and will run it by the band tomorrow night.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

do you have your mids scooped? If so boosting them will help you cut through better and you won't need so much volume. Also +1 on raising your cab to ear level or tilting the cab back.

Usually run flat or slight mid boost. I can hear myself fine onstage, but when I step into the back of the room I cant be heard.

I am going to use my SWR 12-pack next show. I am beginning to think there may be a problem with my Schroeder.

 

[seanm]

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Nice drawing. I have run my amp so it points across the stage at places with a really good PA.

I would *never* want the guitar amp pointing anywhere near me. Even way off axis I have no problem hearing the guitar.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I had a similar problem in that the drummer in my band was getting killed with slap back from bass volume in small venues and also in one outdoor setting where we would typically set up in front of a large cathedral type window and throw the sound down to a marina on a lake.

I solved both challenges by buying a 2X10 extension cab and placing it stage opposite on the outside, IE: ..... in about the same place in relation to the PA subs and mains as my 4X10 stack, but opposite side of the stage. The bottom of the stack sits on the floor. The 2X10 extension sits on the floor.

This gave the bass greater dispersal through the whole stage set up and allowed me to get the same depth and tone and run volume a couple of notches lower. The mix became better, all the band got what they wanted and needed from the bass, I hear myself better and the mix to the audience is better. The overall sound of the band is fattened and once the mix is set, no one competes for volume.

Problem solved.

Another note: I set up on stage right, next to the rhythm guitar player, who is next to the drummer. The lead guitarist is stage left. I always set the bass amp up two to three feet farther back on the stage than the rhythm player and angle my stack more straight ahead rather than to an inside angle. This gets me a bit closer to the drummer and gives me a clear line of vision to him. This angling is important, because the rhythm player most always angles his amp slightly inward so the lead player picks up the fat in the mix from him as well as from monitors. So, as I need to hear myself better, because the angles of the rhythm amp and the bass amp are different I can hear the bass better back at the amp when I'm grooving with the drummer or on the mic line when I'm singing (mostly harmonies). And, if I need to hear more from the rhythm player I can always take a step to my left and get more in his angle. Of course, if we've got a good monitor mix all this maneuvering is less necessary, but the angling is important because we seldom support the bass through the PA.

Hope this helps. If you want more detail on the equipment or other detail, let me know and I'll elaborate.

Koog.

Interesting concept. I've heard pros and cons of using two cabs separated but this might be worth a try.

 

[MNAirHead]

Unfortunately bass guitar does not sound very good through many lower-end PAs especially without subs and good subs that that. You need some really good subs for bass guitar to sound great. On the other hand augmenting the kick with some PA & a little EQ is not as difficult to get to sound good. If bass guitar sounded great through most subs we'd prolly see more bassists using subs as bass guitar speakers... but we don't.

Hmmm My bass goes over 150hz. Wonder of this is the reason

 

[mellowinman]

I run everything through the PA no matter how small the room. Stage volume is a big deal to us, and anyone who plays too loud is out, period.

I'm not interested in sustaining hearing damage. It's just easier to control the mix. You could bring a practice amp, as far as I'm concerned. I play through a Fender Rumble 60 watt combo, and put it right by the drummer.

 

[Stumbo]

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Interesting drawing.

Since the bass amp is not in the mix and being non-directional, I would suggest putting it near the drummer's throne and lifting it off the ground a couple of feet and getting it to hear level(depending on size of cab).

If it's a vertically stacked rig, seems to me that you'll get all the dispersion you need to cover the stage and the room w/o blasting everyone on the stage.

 

[uhdinator]

Put amps on stands and position as follows [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

advantages to this:
1. Drummer can hear better/clearer than if being beside amps (nothing but off axis rumble)
2. Everyone can hear better at lower volume (save your hearing)
3. Amps are off axis from vocal mic's and reduces delay between close mic'd cabs and bleed into vocal mic's. Improves intelligibility of PA. tighter/clearer out front.
4. Sound man can hear PA better, mix better, EQ better, with lower stage volume.
5. Monitors level can be lower, less feedback issues. Singers not losing their voice to hear themselves.
6. Audience and club management like you better and want to hire you again.
7. Less chance of clipping amps, damaging speakers by pushing them too hard so the sound man can hear the PA mix over an overbearing stage volume caused by 3 amps facing straight at him that are louder than the PA.