We were taught to look at Jellyroll Morton's and Thelonius Monk's influences.
Jazz band was really in depth for a 7am high school class.
Jazz band was really in depth for a 7am high school class.
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Converting from Rock and Metal to Jazz
- Thread starter Leaviathan
- Start date
I grew up in a household where my parents only listened to classical music. I listened to rock/pop radio as a little kid, "underground" rock as a teenager, and, for whatever reason, a lot of jazz and Indian classical music as a college student, all before I got my first bass. I mostly play prog/rock, but I understand jazz well enough to cover it. If you've already got the ear for it, it would be a matter of improving mechanics, as some here have recommended. But if you haven't spent much time listening to jazz, then, SteveC and Carl's advice is the best. Listen to it, a lot, without attempting to play along, until you can start to anticipate what the bass is going to do in a jazz piece that you're hearing for the first time.
Holy words, holy words .. don't listen primarily or only to bass, listen and understand the harmonic principles of each tune that remains in your mind
Wow - just took a look at this - THANK you, this is a treasure trove!
+1 to the people who have said listen to jazz.
I went in the reverse, sort of, to you--from jazz (saxophone and bass) to prog rock/metal on bass.
Take the time to learn and listen to the language of jazz; the details will come easier and I think more naturally once you know what the language of jazz is all about.
Best of luck, jazz is a f*ck ton of fun to play for a bass player!
I went in the reverse, sort of, to you--from jazz (saxophone and bass) to prog rock/metal on bass.
Take the time to learn and listen to the language of jazz; the details will come easier and I think more naturally once you know what the language of jazz is all about.
Best of luck, jazz is a f*ck ton of fun to play for a bass player!
Learn your chord theory. Get an app like iReal Pro and download the Real Book 1 collection. If you have an app to record your bass, then get some simple jazz recordings like Take the A Train, load it into the app, listen to the recorded bass part and record yourself. The hard part is learning to swing and stay in the groove. You can do a lot by playing along with a swing jazz drum loop. Something at around 110. Just walk the blues, even if you are playing simple 1 /3 / 5 / 3 (C / E / G / E) and do not get head of the drummer. Stay in the pocket. One of the biggest mistakes bass players make when getting into jazz is neglecting swing, not laying down a solid groove, so when they play, they are stiff and ahead of the beat. Basie said it best, "It's don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing"...
This is a plus. A bass, an amp. That's all you need.
Learning to play walking basses.
The most helpful thing for me was the method "Building Walking Bass lines" by Ed Friedland. Anything I was told about bass in jazz before learning to play a proper walking bass was useless BS. Before that I was told to learn and master scales and modes, harmony, chord substitutions, which I did very well, yet, I still could not play jazz.
In a nutshell and in a simplistic manner (no need to show off and point out the exceptions if you are a jazz nerd), a good jazz walking bass is built this way
- Play either Root, third or Fifth of the chord on the downbeat (depending of what is easy to connect to make a smooth ascending or descending line).
- Connect them using passing tones on the upbeats. There are 3 traditional passing tone "approach" rules (chromatic, 5th, scale note above/1/2 tone below). You can learn that in the method. The passing tones you use on the upbeats are super important, they really make things sound like jazz. Along with passing tones, the fact of not always playing the root on the first beat, will also distinguish a jazz walking bass from a "blues" walking bass where you tend to highlighting the root in the first beat.
It takes a lot of practice to get it right. Finding of other intermediate level jazz players to train with was very difficult. It took me few years of efforts before I could easily follow charts and play jazz standards right off the cuff
The most helpful thing for me was the method "Building Walking Bass lines" by Ed Friedland. Anything I was told about bass in jazz before learning to play a proper walking bass was useless BS. Before that I was told to learn and master scales and modes, harmony, chord substitutions, which I did very well, yet, I still could not play jazz.
In a nutshell and in a simplistic manner (no need to show off and point out the exceptions if you are a jazz nerd), a good jazz walking bass is built this way
- Play either Root, third or Fifth of the chord on the downbeat (depending of what is easy to connect to make a smooth ascending or descending line).
- Connect them using passing tones on the upbeats. There are 3 traditional passing tone "approach" rules (chromatic, 5th, scale note above/1/2 tone below). You can learn that in the method. The passing tones you use on the upbeats are super important, they really make things sound like jazz. Along with passing tones, the fact of not always playing the root on the first beat, will also distinguish a jazz walking bass from a "blues" walking bass where you tend to highlighting the root in the first beat.
It takes a lot of practice to get it right. Finding of other intermediate level jazz players to train with was very difficult. It took me few years of efforts before I could easily follow charts and play jazz standards right off the cuff
As I read through the fantastic answers, the standard jazz gatekeeping answers, and the arguments, I'm gonna go back to the OP's first question and ask this: Why are you converting to jazz, and what are your goals? Is here a particular artist whose music you want to play?
Way to quote half a sentence entirely out of context. I'm not suggesting that you stop knowing what scales are - I don't know how you would be able to understand what a chord is without knowing what a scale or mode is, but you need to change the way you think about them if you're coming from metal. Instead of linear scales, you need to think in terms of chord tones, how they relate to one another functionally, to the note you're currently playing, how it fits into the next chord (without giving it away), and to the underlying progression. You also need to add descending melodic minor (don't revert to Aeolian) to your lexicon, and get familiar with the modes and chord voicings you build from it.
If you look back at my post you'll notice I quoted your entire post then repeated quoting those two words for emphasis.
Become more obnoxious. 
I agree with the others: Listen, listen, listen. But also, start thinking about playing melodically. Learning melodies along with harmonies is a great way to get a sense of their relationship.
There are a lot of recordings of combo groups playing standards, where you can listen while following the changes on the sheet. This is another possible way to get a feel for playing changes.
Ray Brown. He was of course a master, but in addition, his bass parts were something that you can learn a lot from, just listening and then trying to play them by ear. His recordings with Oscar Peterson included a lot of the basic standards along with lots of tunes with blues changes, so it was "learn-able" material.
I agree with the others: Listen, listen, listen. But also, start thinking about playing melodically. Learning melodies along with harmonies is a great way to get a sense of their relationship.
There are a lot of recordings of combo groups playing standards, where you can listen while following the changes on the sheet. This is another possible way to get a feel for playing changes.
Ray Brown. He was of course a master, but in addition, his bass parts were something that you can learn a lot from, just listening and then trying to play them by ear. His recordings with Oscar Peterson included a lot of the basic standards along with lots of tunes with blues changes, so it was "learn-able" material.
+1 on listening to standards by vocalists: Frank, Ella, Billie, etc.
It really helps you internalize the tune and keeps you from getting lost if you know the words/melody. A plus is most standards have only one verse anyway. I think it helps simplify things and keep your playing structured to the form.
Most standards started out as pop songs and show tunes that everyone knew anyway. So when people started extending them and/or taking them out, they already had that basic reference to start from.
Some standards will give you a lot of bang for your buck to learn really well, really soon too. I might suggest:
Autumn Leaves
How High The Moon
All The Things You Are
Blues
Minor Blues
I've Got Rhythm (rhythm changes)
You'll get a lot of mileage out of what you learn from these. When you have one down pretty well, start learning it in another key.
Lots of good tips here already. Read 'em. Use 'em. Someone said to smile. Another +1. Why? Because this is supposed to be fun. Play, right?
Play.
It really helps you internalize the tune and keeps you from getting lost if you know the words/melody. A plus is most standards have only one verse anyway. I think it helps simplify things and keep your playing structured to the form.
Most standards started out as pop songs and show tunes that everyone knew anyway. So when people started extending them and/or taking them out, they already had that basic reference to start from.
Some standards will give you a lot of bang for your buck to learn really well, really soon too. I might suggest:
Autumn Leaves
How High The Moon
All The Things You Are
Blues
Minor Blues
I've Got Rhythm (rhythm changes)
You'll get a lot of mileage out of what you learn from these. When you have one down pretty well, start learning it in another key.
Lots of good tips here already. Read 'em. Use 'em. Someone said to smile. Another +1. Why? Because this is supposed to be fun. Play, right?
Play.
Yes, Acoustic Alchemy, Snarky Puppy to name a couple, I also play steel string and nylon string acoustics as well as electric guitar and I'm moving in the same direction with everything.
Already there
I put La Bella Deep Talkin bass flats on my PJ bass and TI Jazz Flats on my 5 string Jazz
I've been listening to the Rippingtons since they started out, just never got into playing it. I've also been a huge Stanley Clarke fan for about 30 years. Love his style, but I've always played rock, metal and country
@Koshchei actually has a point, to an extent. You need to know both chord theory AND scales equally as well. I think what he's trying to say is that most people playing pop music (anything that isn't jazz is pop music in this context) put so much emphasis on learning scales that they neglect other aspects of theory. Jazz theory really benefits from knowing chord structure and voicing (7th, 9th, 11th, dim, etc) front and back, up and down, clockwise and withershins, and any other orientory descriptors you can conjur. A lot of the jazz soloing I'd do would essentially be rooted in running the scale of whatever chord we were on (with a little embellishment to keep the blue bloods awake) and then shifting things around to move with the piece of music as the chords progression changed. This of course was not always the case - nothing ever is with jazz - but it's a good start as far as wrapping your head around how to approach soloing in jazz pieces.
Find a good teacher. Listen to a lot of Jazz.
Jazz chords, use a piano to hear the chord tones.
Have fun,lol.
Jazz chords, use a piano to hear the chord tones.
Have fun,lol.
