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Converting from Rock and Metal to Jazz

#21
Leaviathan said:
Besides the obvious studying new scales, what would be some of your first steps if you were attempting to convert to Jazz?
Click to expand...


Forget everything you know... well not really, but rethink it...

Where I - IV - V is a basis in rock and popular music, IIm7 - V7 - IMaj7 tends to be a starting point in jazz.

Like someone said, listen to a lot of jazz. You most likely played rock and metal because you liked it... you need to like jazz, not saying that you don't, but soaking it up is important.

Find YouTube videos, instruction, but in the beginning look for stuff like "Jazz For Rockers" or something along those lines.
They'll most likely present it in a more familiar way. Many unintentionally will talk over one's head using unfamiliar terminology and concepts. You definitely need to learn such lingo, but it can seem overwhelming and you want to get your feet wet, get a good feel for it without it seeming too frustrating.

Learn standards, watch some tutorial videos of these.

Have fun with it!
 
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#22
IMO, Jazz is a feel. If you've "got it", you've got it. You don't need to do anything to "convert", just keep playing along to jazz, and see where it leads you.

I think all of the genres are a "feel", a "spirit" if you will. You don't need us to point in the direction of exercises or theory; it's everywhere on the net. You may or may not need it.

Just dig it.
 
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#23
I did the same thing 25 years ago, and then transitioned back to rock and metal, and am now back to playing jazz.

For me, the biggest thing going from metal to jazz was to stop thinking in terms of following riffs or the bass drum. As others have mentioned, you're going to need to do a lot of jazz listening, and you're going to have to start thinking about music theory. The biggest thing that helped me was the Jamey Aebersold series of play along albums (actual records and cd's back in the 90's). While they're primarily meant for soloists working on improv, what they do have is a rock solid rhythm section playing along with the chart. So what I would do is play through the melody of one of the standards a few times (All of Me, Autumn Leaves, Take the A Train, etc), and then I would transcribe the bass lines the bassists were using on the charts. Then I would go through note by note and figure out WHY the bassist was using the notes in that chord. I'd also pay attention to rhythms. So much of a walking line is the little embellishments; while it's 90% quarter notes, the added quarters or accents or muted notes are what really make a line swing.

As for bassists to listen to, Ray Brown. He is the Bach of jazz bass.
 
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#24
I have two suggestions:

1. Learn as many standards as you can. This will teach you a lot about how jazz harmony flows, plus it will stand you in good stead when you go to jam sessions or gigs. Memorize the chords and the melodies (see Ed Fuqua's discourse on "really learning a tune" here). There are lots of lists of the most important ones, so pick one and work it.

2. Transcribe bass lines from recordings you like. This will teach you how the language and the role of the bass in jazz work. Start with the classic players - Paul Chambers, Bob Cranshaw, Major Holley, Wilbur Ware (my fave), and work your way up to more modern players. You don't have to write them down in music notation, though I've found that it greatly helps my reading ability if I do.

You can of course combine the two suggestions - when learning a tune I usually find a recording of it I like and transcribe a chorus or two of the bass line to see how the pros do it. Often I find that changes in the fake books are not what is actually being played (shocking, I know).

I'll add a third suggestion, which is to get out to both listen to and play jazz with other people as much as you can. The real art of jazz is being able to listen and respond to others in the moment as it happens, and all the practice is merely preparation for doing that.

Good luck with your quest - don't be too impatient. Jazz is a journey, not a destination.
 
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#25
Ed Fuqua said:
Forget about "new scales". Start listening to the music, and not just the bassists. Start hearing how the language sounds. There's not a lot of overlap in the music you've been playing and the rhythmic and melodic vocabulary in jazz, so you need to start getting how that sounds in your ears.
Click to expand...

+1

Jazz is not something you watch a couple you tube videos and "convert" to.
 
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#27
I've been working on exactly this the past couple years, with some success on a very long & continuing progression.

If you're just looking to play walking bass lines behind soloists, none this post may be of no help.

Answers will depend on how deep you hope to go and whether you mean *real* jazz, which is truly free, using extended language and techniques, highly challenging to both performer and audience, sometimes "out", etc. as opposed to elevator / cruise-ship jazz-y shtuff. As I define it; John Zorn is jazz while Kenny G is not, and "improvised music" is not at all "jamming".

Basing my post on those statements, rock & metal are very not-jazz; actually nearly polar opposite so you'll find that for quote awhile a lot of learning may need to be done by unlearning.

You'll need to immerse yourself in the scene. If you're near a big city there's probably a vibrant underground with regular gigs you can tap into. Studying with one of those cats will be key, and for the first while it'll probably be more mentorship; talking & contextual to start some awareness.

Listening to the masters as many have suggested is great, but you'll have no idea of what you're hearing - what it means, and why. It'd be like listening to a totally foreign language and perhaps copying it snippets of it like a parrot with zero idea what's being said or the structure and idioms of the language.

If you can find a drummer at your level of rock & metal that's willing to go on the journey with you, and really put the work in, that'd help immeasurably.

Rock and metal are far too often all about scales. A scale can sound jazz-y perhaps, but real jazz isn't about scales at all.

There are few greater affronts than rock guys trying to sound "jazzy" by playing a "jazz scale" or some blue notes without any awareness of what any of it even means in context of the music

A formal education is the ideal path, and posting on the DB side will get you far better and brutally blunt but true replies.

Good luck and have fun!
 
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#30
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#36
Leaviathan said:
Besides the obvious studying new scales, what would be some of your first steps if you were attempting to convert to Jazz?
Click to expand...

Step one.... make the mental adjustment required to tell yourself that playing to an audience of 3 plus the guy behind the bar is just as rewarding as playing rock and metal in front of an audience of 300 ;)

The RealBook is a good place to start. Try the iReal Pro app. Playing along with standards will get you up to speed quite quickly. Listen to the originals of the standards as well... a lot of this stuff comes from listening as well as time in the woodshed running through scales, arps, modes etc.
 
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#38
Leaviathan said:
Besides the obvious studying new scales, what would be some of your first steps if you were attempting to convert to Jazz?
Click to expand...
Listen to it.

There is so much material out there... Listen to the whole history, but keep coming back to one or two classic albums at first. Keep them in heavy rotation until you can sing along with the melodies and solos.
 
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#39
MuttThud said:
Step one.... make the mental adjustment required to tell yourself that playing to an audience of 3 plus the guy behind the bar is just as rewarding as playing rock and metal in front of an audience of 300 ;)

The RealBook is a good place to start. Try the iReal Pro app. Playing along with standards will get you up to speed quite quickly. Listen to the originals of the standards as well... a lot of this stuff comes from listening as well as time in the woodshed running through scales, arps, modes etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah, small crowds and I forgot about that app. I have it and use it to practice soloing...also something you'll be expected to do. Maybe not every time, but the rest of the group will appreciate the effort once in a while.
 
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