after 30 years of playing bass, I want to take the giant step and purchase an all tube head. I know this subject is a matter of opinion, but here is my questions.........I have recently joined a classic rock cover band, (two loud guitarist, drummer, and male/female vocalist) I have been playing thru Eden amps and speakers, and since playing with this band, for some reason I am not cutting thru the mix well. My guitarist has an old Fender Bassman tube amp that he let me try at practice. Problem solved, my bass cut thru instantly, my bass came alive! This opened my eyes that maybe an all tube amp is warranted. Since my guitarist won't give up his Fender, I am looking to purchase my own. Since I played thru the Bassman, I am looking at the new Fender Bassman 300 Pro amps. My main Question is this amp just for big stages, big volume, can a high powered tube amp still be good fot smaller gigs too? I know there is a handful of tube amps out there that are popular. any input would be helpful....thanks
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
converting to all tube
- Thread starter countrybassman
- Start date
Overkill is the name of the game for me, I love my monster tube amps. You can always turn the volume down and having the two channels on the Fenders you should be able to dial in a gritty tone at lower volumes.
I am not an expert by any means but... My Ampeg V4 cut through the mix and sounded awesome at the same time. I think I was using 2 15's then also.
How about trying an overdrive pedal first? A lot less expensive option. (If you don't use that already)
I have also had problems cutting through because I tend to like a clean and scooped sound, but adding some grit have helped a lot in my view. I guess it adds both texture and mid frequencies.
I have also had problems cutting through because I tend to like a clean and scooped sound, but adding some grit have helped a lot in my view. I guess it adds both texture and mid frequencies.
I think it depends on how much headroom you want and what venues you typically play. For reference, I play in a Surf band with a two guitar players and a drummer. In our full setup, the guitar players play 100W Showmans and our drummer is very loud.
After going back and forth between the 300 and 100T, I went with the 100T for a couple of reasons. One, I like the tube grind I get when the amp is pushed. The 100T gets to the sweet spot at more reasonable volumes than the 300W. The other reason is practical. The 100T is switchable to 25W for smaller gigs. Paired with 2 Neo 1x15s, I've had no issue being heard at either wattage setting. Lately, I've even gone with just 1x15 ans still no issue.
As a comparison, my previous rig (now backup) is a Markbass LM Tube 800 (SS with a "tube" circuit). I still like the amp but even paired with an overdrive, it's just not the same as the Bassman in terms of warmth. The Bassman is much more suited for what we do.
After going back and forth between the 300 and 100T, I went with the 100T for a couple of reasons. One, I like the tube grind I get when the amp is pushed. The 100T gets to the sweet spot at more reasonable volumes than the 300W. The other reason is practical. The 100T is switchable to 25W for smaller gigs. Paired with 2 Neo 1x15s, I've had no issue being heard at either wattage setting. Lately, I've even gone with just 1x15 ans still no issue.
As a comparison, my previous rig (now backup) is a Markbass LM Tube 800 (SS with a "tube" circuit). I still like the amp but even paired with an overdrive, it's just not the same as the Bassman in terms of warmth. The Bassman is much more suited for what we do.
Drive helps because it makes upper harmonics more consistent, no need to go all tube, but it would definitely help!
My opinion here and it's nothing more. I used to have a Mesa 400+, an old Sunn with the 2-15" JBLs and a 1966 Fender Bassman with the 2-12s. (Many years ago, and I surely wish I would have kept the Sunn and JBLs!)
All 3 of these amps had dominant mid range. Even the Mesa, with it's modern EQ and many different knob setting options, I just couldn't carve away the mid range and it had a somewhat "nasal" sound that I could never get rid of.
Thus, you cut through the mix with your guitarist Fender Bassman amp. Cut through is all about mid range. The Bassman has a lot of that and that is why it's a popular guitar amp.
With today's modern ss amps, if one wants to "cut through the mix" (I personally get sooooo tired of hearing that phrase!)............it's there. Just play it flat all across the knobs or jack up the mids. Or pluck closer to the bridge. A bassist can cut through.
A bass player doesn't have to have a tube amp to "cut through" or to sound better or louder or whatever.
But, if a bassist is into sweet, musical distorted sound, then that can only be achieved with a tube amp. And this subject has been beat to death here on Talk Bass. Tubes vs ss. A never ending battle! No one has won the debate yet!
A good amp is a good amp whether if it's tubes or ss. Each bassist can decide and use what he or she likes. There's no "God's Word" on amps.
I agree with the one TBer up above that it's better to have have too much power than not enough. Just turn it down if it's too loud. It's like a V-8 engine. Ya don't have to do 120 mph. But it's nice to know that it's there.
All 3 of these amps had dominant mid range. Even the Mesa, with it's modern EQ and many different knob setting options, I just couldn't carve away the mid range and it had a somewhat "nasal" sound that I could never get rid of.
Thus, you cut through the mix with your guitarist Fender Bassman amp. Cut through is all about mid range. The Bassman has a lot of that and that is why it's a popular guitar amp.
With today's modern ss amps, if one wants to "cut through the mix" (I personally get sooooo tired of hearing that phrase!)............it's there. Just play it flat all across the knobs or jack up the mids. Or pluck closer to the bridge. A bassist can cut through.
A bass player doesn't have to have a tube amp to "cut through" or to sound better or louder or whatever.
But, if a bassist is into sweet, musical distorted sound, then that can only be achieved with a tube amp. And this subject has been beat to death here on Talk Bass. Tubes vs ss. A never ending battle! No one has won the debate yet!
A good amp is a good amp whether if it's tubes or ss. Each bassist can decide and use what he or she likes. There's no "God's Word" on amps.
I agree with the one TBer up above that it's better to have have too much power than not enough. Just turn it down if it's too loud. It's like a V-8 engine. Ya don't have to do 120 mph. But it's nice to know that it's there.
Tube amps sound nice, but I for one is long past carrying 80 lbs heads and wrestling refrigerator sized cabinets up and down club stairs, been there done that ... most of the sound reaching the audience comes from the PA anyway. Try a pedal. Just my contrary opinion - I'm now ready for the roasting. 
the fender 100t is an impressive beast. if i were in the market for a new tube amp, i would be comparing it and the svt cl.
iirc, the ability to have 100/25 watt power, auto bias and record w/o a cab makes the fender a strong contender. (i'm doing this research mentally, you may want to verify this info.....i'm still on my first cup of coffee!)
the svt though.....is an SVT! nothing can replace the feeling of that classic sound and power, if that's what you're after. i feel relatively safe saying, it is the standard by which all others are judged.
iirc, the ability to have 100/25 watt power, auto bias and record w/o a cab makes the fender a strong contender. (i'm doing this research mentally, you may want to verify this info.....i'm still on my first cup of coffee!)
the svt though.....is an SVT! nothing can replace the feeling of that classic sound and power, if that's what you're after. i feel relatively safe saying, it is the standard by which all others are judged.
You don't need to carry a fridge cab around to enjoy the sonic benefits an all tube head.
I run mine clean, but I wouldn't go back to a mosfet amp for all the tea in China.
It's not about volume or distortion, it's about a more 3D sound.
I run mine clean, but I wouldn't go back to a mosfet amp for all the tea in China.
It's not about volume or distortion, it's about a more 3D sound.
To my ears, for an undistorted tone, the only difference between tube and ss is the compression and warmth - both of which are sweet.
Cutting thru the mix is about EQ (as its heard in the audience - not on stage), not whether its tube vs ss.
I'm currently using a ss head (LM-III), a BDDI, and an EBS Multi-Comp compression pedal. I cut thru in the mix and I have good tube like compression and warmth. For me, this is a better alternative to a 90 lb tube rig.
I won't begrudge any bass player the joy and fun of having a full tube rig, but for me this works well.
Cutting thru the mix is about EQ (as its heard in the audience - not on stage), not whether its tube vs ss.
I'm currently using a ss head (LM-III), a BDDI, and an EBS Multi-Comp compression pedal. I cut thru in the mix and I have good tube like compression and warmth. For me, this is a better alternative to a 90 lb tube rig.
I won't begrudge any bass player the joy and fun of having a full tube rig, but for me this works well.
There's also the option of using a tube preamp and a solid state power amp. You won't get the power tube distortion that you get out of an all tube head but your sound will be warmed up by the tube pre. And any SS power amp worth it's salt will be transparent enough to let that warmness through. The advantages are that now you're not lugging around an all tube amp that requires two roadies to lift it out of the trunk and you can easily (and cheaply) get well beyond the 300W RMS mark you usually see in all tube amps.
For me it's not about the "power tube distortion", I play my tube rigs clean.
It's the depth and presence that a tube output delivers, a "musical" quality just not present with transistors rather than the ability to overdrive without sounding like ass that makes the difference between transistor and tube outputs; although that thick power tube grind has it's place...
A tube preamp in front of a transistor power amp isn't a bad sound; it just doesn't sound like an all tube amp.
Which probably explains all the marketing palaver (as well as the numerous TB posts) about how "tubelike" this or that transistor rig sounds.
When was the last time you heard someone bragging, boasting and clamoring about how "transistorlike" their all tube rig sounded?
IMO there are transistor rigs that sound acceptable, and Lord knows they are much lighter and dirt cheap.
But, for those with a discerning ear who are serious about their tone there really is no substitute for the real thing.
For the casual or hobbyist player transistors often make a lot more sense, as I said they are light weight, compact and wont strain the household budget. However its no accident that all tube rigs are so dominant on pro stages, where cost and convenience take a back seat to tonal preferences.
Hyperbolic nonsense.
Yes and no, some tube amps are incredibly heavy and need two people to lift them. On the other hand, so are some SS amps, but since the size and weight and amps has shrunk DRAMATICALLY over the years it no longer poses much of a problem, unless you like 'vintage gear' in which case your back hates you
Hyperbolic nonsense.
Yep, lift that Peavey Classic 400 out of the trunk for me please. 100 pounds. I'm no weakling but that somebeach is HEAVY.
