converting to all tube

[SactoBass]

It's the depth and presence that a tube output delivers, a "musical" quality just not present with transistors

Yep. And no matter how much people want to "believe" that transistors can provide that, it just doesn't hold true.

although that thick power tube grind has it's place...

Indeed it does! And it's nothing like that buzzy preamp tube grind. The tube preamp into solid state power amp arrangement just doesn't cut it. And I certainly have tried (even with upper end tube preamps and lead sled power amps).

A tube preamp in front of a transistor power amp isn't a bad sound; it just doesn't sound like an all tube amp.

Nor does it "feel" like one. I get a tactile response from an all-tube amp that I could just never get from a transistor amp. The all-tube amps make it seem as if the notes jump off of my fretboard, as if the notes are alive. Most commenters focus on tone and either forget or ignore the "feel" aspect.

When was the last time you heard someone bragging, boasting and clamoring about how "transistorlike" their all tube rig sounded?

LOL! I don't recall *any* rig being touted as such.

for those with a discerning ear who are serious about their tone there really is no substitute for the “real thing”.

It's kinda like comparing a blow-up doll to the real thing.

For the casual or hobbyist player transistors often make a lot more sense, as I said they are light weight, compact and won’t strain the household budget.

I completely agree! Those lightweight rigs make alot of sense for alot of bassists!

it’s no accident that all tube rigs are so dominant on pro stages, where cost and convenience take a back seat to tonal preferences.

Correct. They obviously can afford any gear they want for backlines. They choose all-tube gear. There is a reason.

I know I may come across as a tube snob. I am only expressing my preference. That's all. We are all different (thank goodness) and I respect everyone having their own preferences and opinions. I have just had too many different bass rigs over the past 40 years of playing bass, and I know what I like!

 

[M. Owen Santy]

Look at the Traynor YBA200-2 & YBA300. Decent prices for either and great tone.

 

[StuartV]

For the casual or hobbyist player transistors often make a lot more sense, as I said they are light weight, compact and won’t strain the household budget. However it’s no accident that all tube rigs are so dominant on pro stages, where cost and convenience take a back seat to tonal preferences.

I just have one problem with this statement. The pros that can afford whatever they want or even spec whatever backline they want to have provided are the top, what? 5 or 10% of all professional musicians? And by "professional", I mean people who make their living as a musician. If you factor in the semi-pros (i.e. people who make money as musicians but also work other jobs), that percentage is a LOT smaller.

The professional musicians I know and/or have played with are mostly somewhere between poor and flat broke. I filled in on drums at a gig a while back with a touring Blues act out of Memphis. The bass player played a MIM Fender J and had no backup bass, no spare new strings, and a few REALLY bad spare used strings.

For MOST professional musicians, I would also say that a good quality SS rig is actually the best and most common choice. I think the expensive all-tube rigs are MOSTLY hobbyists, semi-pros that have good day jobs, and the very top end of the "pro" class.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

For me it's not about the "power tube distortion", I play my tube rigs clean.
It's the depth and presence that a tube output delivers, a "musical" quality just not present with transistors rather than the ability to overdrive without sounding like ass

All that stuff is distortion. Its just not the nasty preamp distortion that guitarists like.

 

[StuartV]

My main Question is this amp just for big stages, big volume, can a high powered tube amp still be good fot smaller gigs too?

No, it's not only for big stages, big volume. Yes, it can be perfectly awesome, even for a coffee shop. If you do use it a coffee shop gig, you might to bring something smaller than an 810 cabinet. And, yes, it might look kinda funny to have a big tube head perched on top of a 1x12 or 2x10 cab, but it will still work just fine and sound great.

The ONLY potential problem is if you WANT your sound/tone to include that tube amp power tube distortion sound. For that, you'll have to be blasting the volume, so then it would not be good for small gigs. But, if you're just looking for tube amp warmth and a clean sound, the amp really cannot be too powerful.

 

[Duckwater]

I'm happy with any amp that reproduces my sound and playing accurately

 

[TheRealKong]

In a blind test situation, noone of the tube - gourmets will be able to tell the difference between any given all-tube - amp and a, lets say, GenzBenz Streamliner 900.

It will even be more difficult if I use my Ampeg SVP Pro together with ma Class A/B transistor-poweramp.

Even my old Peavey TMax sounds like an Ampeg, if I want it to. There is a lots of rubbish - talk in case of tonal differences between all-tube-amps and a good hybrid. They are not that obvious.

Ciao

Uwe

 

[Floyd Eye]

In a blind test situation, noone of the tube - gourmets will be able to tell the difference between any given all-tube - amp and a, lets say, GenzBenz Streamliner 900.

It will even be more difficult if I use my Ampeg SVP Pro together with ma Class A/B transistor-poweramp.

Even my old Peavey TMax sounds like an Ampeg, if I want it to. There is a lots of rubbish - talk in case of tonal differences between all-tube-amps and a good hybrid. They are not that obvious.

Ciao

Uwe

Provably false.

 

[JimmyM]

Do I have to come into every single tube thread and straighten people out?



OK, so here's the deal...if you like solid state or hybrid, great. If you like tube, great. I've played all of it and own all of it and use all of it. But I like tube better in every way. Nothing compares to it, and while SS has gotten much better at mimicking tube sound over the last 5-6 years, it still ain't tubes. And I'll take a blind test playing them any time and I will be able to tell the difference 100% of the time. Modelers and such can sound like recordings of a tube amp, but stand in front of them and it's a whole different story.

And if you love tubes, you really don't care all that much about the schlep under ordinary circumstances. Takes a little longer to set up, maybe you'll do a little bit of deadlifting in the process...for someone with an injury or condition that prevents it, that's cool, but for me it's no big deal unless stairs or long walks are involved. And even if there's a long walk, I have a dolly so still not that much of a deal.

Now I've never had an audience walk out on us because I show up to gigs sometimes with a Micro VR or a BA110, but while the Micro VR is a fantastic little $300 amp, it's a $300 amp, and it's mostly an issue of schlep when I use it, and occasional laziness But I never enjoy playing as much as when I have a great tube amp to plug into, and the bigger the cab rig, the better. It will not make or break you as a player...if you make a mistake on a tube amp, it still sounds like a mistake...but it'll be an awesome sounding mistake!

 

[SemiDriven]

Pass the salt please!

 

[gregmon79]

The Mesa 400+ (I prefer it to the 400) should be a strong consideration for you, too. IMHO, it's no doubt the most versatile of the tube monsters. A true icon amp, & deservedly so.

So how do these stack up to those new mesa tube amps coming out? I can't remember what they are called. There is 2 different ones though. I will get a tube amp sometime in the future and I want to make sure I get as educated as I can on most of them. I'd like to go mesa. Also, how does the GK fusion 550 stack up to an all tube amp in terms of warmth and presence of tube sound? I would really like to get the GK but if an ALL tube amp is going to be quite a difference I'd rather save the extra scratch and all tubes ya know.

 

[David A. Davis]

Do I have to come into every single tube thread and straighten people out?



OK, so here's the deal...if you like solid state or hybrid, great. If you like tube, great. I've played all of it and own all of it and use all of it. But I like tube better in every way. Nothing compares to it, and while SS has gotten much better at mimicking tube sound over the last 5-6 years, it still ain't tubes. And I'll take a blind test playing them any time and I will be able to tell the difference 100% of the time. Modelers and such can sound like recordings of a tube amp, but stand in front of them and it's a whole different story.

And if you love tubes, you really don't care all that much about the schlep under ordinary circumstances. Takes a little longer to set up, maybe you'll do a little bit of deadlifting in the process...for someone with an injury or condition that prevents it, that's cool, but for me it's no big deal unless stairs or long walks are involved. And even if there's a long walk, I have a dolly so still not that much of a deal.

Now I've never had an audience walk out on us because I show up to gigs sometimes with a Micro VR or a BA110, but while the Micro VR is a fantastic little $300 amp, it's a $300 amp, and it's mostly an issue of schlep when I use it, and occasional laziness But I never enjoy playing as much as when I have a great tube amp to plug into, and the bigger the cab rig, the better. It will not make or break you as a player...if you make a mistake on a tube amp, it still sounds like a mistake...but it'll be an awesome sounding mistake!

You tell'em Jimmy!

 

[Korladis]

Yes and no, some tube amps are incredibly heavy and need two people to lift them. On the other hand, so are some SS amps, but since the size and weight and amps has shrunk DRAMATICALLY over the years it no longer poses much of a problem, unless you like 'vintage gear' in which case your back hates you

I have never seen a tube amp so heavy it required two people just to lift. SVTs are really heavy, yeah, but one person can still lift them.

 

[nashvillebill]

I'm willing to bet that there are certain SS amps that you could not differentiate from SS in a true blind test. In fact Bob Carver proved just that many years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I love tube amps, but this notion that SS amps are inherently inferior in tone is pure BS. Absolutely pure BS, it's someone's preconceived notion.

Do we constantly have to keep rehashing this tube snobbery crap all the damn time?

 

[seamonkey]

after 30 years of playing bass, I want to take the giant step and purchase an all tube head. I know this subject is a matter of opinion, but here is my questions.........I have recently joined a classic rock cover band, (two loud guitarist, drummer, and male/female vocalist) I have been playing thru Eden amps and speakers, and since playing with this band, for some reason I am not cutting thru the mix well. My guitarist has an old Fender Bassman tube amp that he let me try at practice. Problem solved, my bass cut thru instantly, my bass came alive! This opened my eyes that maybe an all tube amp is warranted. Since my guitarist won't give up his Fender, I am looking to purchase my own. Since I played thru the Bassman, I am looking at the new Fender Bassman 300 Pro amps. My main Question is this amp just for big stages, big volume, can a high powered tube amp still be good fot smaller gigs too? I know there is a handful of tube amps out there that are popular. any input would be helpful....thanks

The difference you heard is probably due to more EQ than anything else. The main difference between "heads" the the EQ is for each has a "signature" sound. Some are bass heavy, and mid scooped, some are flatter. On your Eden, try turning the bass down, and turn up a little so the mids are louder.

"Distortion" adds more mids and highs and possibly why you think you're cutting through.

Your standing position in the band is not going to reflect if you're cutting through out front. Cutting through where you're standing may be overkill on the mids out front. Or you still may not be cutting through - someone has to stand out front to tell you.

 

[nashvillebill]

I have never seen a tube amp so heavy it required two people just to lift. SVTs are really heavy, yeah, but one person can still lift them.

Here's one that weighs 250 kg. Link Removed

 

[Floyd Eye]

I'm willing to bet that there are certain SS amps that you could not differentiate from SS in a true blind test. In fact Bob Carver proved just that many years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I love tube amps, but this notion that SS amps are inherently inferior in tone is pure BS. Absolutely pure BS, it's someone's preconceived notion.

Do we constantly have to keep rehashing this tube snobbery crap all the damn time?

Name them. Personally ( and I am a guy who likes some ss amps) I have never heard an amp with a SS power section that I couldn't immediately tell wasn't a tube amp. Maybe Bob Carver proved SOME people couldn't tell.

And to answer your closing question: Of course we do.

 

[Korladis]

Who said inferior?

Different, yes. Inferior/superior are subjective, and depend entirely on the tone a player is going for.

 

[Korladis]

Here's one that weighs 250 kg. Link Removed

And I doubt many are using this for gigs. Try again.

There are some 100 pound production tube amps. But that's about as heavy as I've ever seen, and still manageable.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm willing to bet that there are certain SS amps that you could not differentiate from SS in a true blind test. In fact Bob Carver proved just that many years ago.

Proved it? How and with what amps? Got a link?

Don't get me wrong, I love tube amps, but this notion that SS amps are inherently inferior in tone is pure BS. Absolutely pure BS, it's someone's preconceived notion.

This part is 100% true. For me, tube amps are the be-all and end-all. But I certainly realize that I'm not everybody, and I've seen a lot of awesome professionals sounding awesome with SS gear. So it's really a "whatever" question, but when someone asks, I'll volunteer why I like tube amps better.

Do we constantly have to keep rehashing this tube snobbery crap all the damn time?

Apparently, yes. I'm very proud to be a raging tube snob, BTW. I may be the world's worst tube snob, but I am one