Does anyone know what am I looking at price wise to drop on a PA that could handle 300 people outdoors fairly well? Typical rock band, couple mics.
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Cost of PA?
- Thread starter SlyFoxtrot
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Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
We need more info.
For starters: Is the area a patio, or a football stadium? Is there a wall behind you? What are you amplifying through the PA?
For starters: Is the area a patio, or a football stadium? Is there a wall behind you? What are you amplifying through the PA?
Seriously? He said 300 people, he clearly means a small to medium size venue that could flex to an outdoor setting as well....sheesh
Yeah this. We need a few more details.
1) Are you wanting to mic the drums and have bass run through the FOH? Monitors? How many channels? How many monitor mixes? Do you need all the mics, stands, cables, lights, etc.? What do you need for EQ and effects?
2) How loud?
3) How compact?
You could probably get into a rather inexpensive passive (separate power amps and speakers) system for around $5,000 if you shop well. Some stuff would be new and some used. That stuff would be large and heavy. (Again, this depends on what you need/want.)
You could easily spend $30K or more if you want to go nuts. You could wind up with an active system (powered speakers) and a digital board you could run from an iPad and the whole thing would fit in and minivan and tear your head off.
I have a small PA for a rock band that cost about $4,400CDN. Everything was bought new: a powered mixer, two 12" monitors, two 12" mains, a mic mechanic, and all cabling. I also got a wireless for going out front and listening to the band.
We have used it for small bars, medium bars (250), and outdoor parties. Outdoor parties have never been a problem, but we always have had a wall of some sort behind us.
We basically only run the vocals, acoustic guitar, and sometimes bass (indoors only) through it. The main downside is that the kick drum is not as strong as I would like. We had a loud drummer, so drums (aside from kick) where not a problem. We may need to mic the new drummer.
We have used it for small bars, medium bars (250), and outdoor parties. Outdoor parties have never been a problem, but we always have had a wall of some sort behind us.
We basically only run the vocals, acoustic guitar, and sometimes bass (indoors only) through it. The main downside is that the kick drum is not as strong as I would like. We had a loud drummer, so drums (aside from kick) where not a problem. We may need to mic the new drummer.
Any reason not to rent a system? If nothing else it will give you some better ideas about what your needs are and then you can price the equipment based on that information. Don't hesitate to look into buying used equipment, PA gear is generally quite robust so buying used can save you a fair amount of money.
Pretty much...
Decent volume. Not earsplitting.
I haven't decided.
dang...that's more than what I was thinking.
Renting in the long run seems like it's less monetarily efficient. I see your point though. Additionally I've heard having a PA is good for running bands. Good position of leverage.
Yes, investing in a PA is a good idea. The "minimum" question is pretty common, and you'll get wildly diverging answers. Quality sound costs money. On the other hand, not being able to afford quality is not a reason NOT to gig. Do what you can with what you can afford.
To be honest, I'm a minimalist. Assuming your drummer is reasonably loud and you and the guitarist(s) have decent amps, all you really NEED to put in a PA is vocals. I have a pair of Carvin PM12a speakers (they're powered) that I got used from a TBer for $350 together, and a Behringer mixing board that I got used from the church who had it for a backup for $60. For a monitor I have a powered Kustom wedge, that I think was $120 or something. Add in XLR cables and a pair of speaker stands and you pretty much have my PA (I also have a power conditioner and a crossover from the days when my guitarist brought a small sub). Maybe $600 or 700 altogether. If I had bought the various components new it might have been $1000 or $1200.
Now that's bottom-of-the-barrel, and I'm sure all the sound guys on TB are wincing as they read it, but we can play a gig and make the vocals loud enough to be heard in the mix with all the rest. @jive1 tells stories about putting his first band together as a teenager and jerry-rigging a PA together out of discarded home stereo speakers they found in the dumpster. Just get out there and play with whatever you can manage! You can always upgrade later.
Now, I'm launching a new band myself and am going to need to think about PA, and I do want to go beyond the bottom-of-the-barrel setup that I have. Rotating my Carvins to become monitors and getting some nice mains, say QSC K10s, and a good mixer, that would be a new $2000 investment or more, and add in maybe another $1200 just for a high-quality subwoofer. That's without getting into cordless mics (probably don't need, we're all playing instruments) or IEMs.
As others have said, you can go nuts. Spending $10,000 on a PA is easy. A friend I was doing an originals project with has all that, and the trailer to haul it in. I think he feels very good about the rockstarness of it all. But he hauled the whole thing in, with a couple of buddies to act as roadies even, to play a church BBQ - and we were promptly asked to turn down. It was WAY overkill. Being loud is actually very easy and you don't need as much as you think you do if you aren't going for eardrum-splitting.
To be honest, I'm a minimalist. Assuming your drummer is reasonably loud and you and the guitarist(s) have decent amps, all you really NEED to put in a PA is vocals. I have a pair of Carvin PM12a speakers (they're powered) that I got used from a TBer for $350 together, and a Behringer mixing board that I got used from the church who had it for a backup for $60. For a monitor I have a powered Kustom wedge, that I think was $120 or something. Add in XLR cables and a pair of speaker stands and you pretty much have my PA (I also have a power conditioner and a crossover from the days when my guitarist brought a small sub). Maybe $600 or 700 altogether. If I had bought the various components new it might have been $1000 or $1200.
Now that's bottom-of-the-barrel, and I'm sure all the sound guys on TB are wincing as they read it, but we can play a gig and make the vocals loud enough to be heard in the mix with all the rest. @jive1 tells stories about putting his first band together as a teenager and jerry-rigging a PA together out of discarded home stereo speakers they found in the dumpster. Just get out there and play with whatever you can manage! You can always upgrade later.
Now, I'm launching a new band myself and am going to need to think about PA, and I do want to go beyond the bottom-of-the-barrel setup that I have. Rotating my Carvins to become monitors and getting some nice mains, say QSC K10s, and a good mixer, that would be a new $2000 investment or more, and add in maybe another $1200 just for a high-quality subwoofer. That's without getting into cordless mics (probably don't need, we're all playing instruments) or IEMs.
As others have said, you can go nuts. Spending $10,000 on a PA is easy. A friend I was doing an originals project with has all that, and the trailer to haul it in. I think he feels very good about the rockstarness of it all. But he hauled the whole thing in, with a couple of buddies to act as roadies even, to play a church BBQ - and we were promptly asked to turn down. It was WAY overkill. Being loud is actually very easy and you don't need as much as you think you do if you aren't going for eardrum-splitting.
If you are looking for new, check out IDJNow.com. If you go to their Speaker Packages section, they put together packages that include cables, stands, covers and the like. Here's a pair of Invalid Link Removedfor ~$1500. You can always pick up subwoofers and monitors later. The powered subs have a built in crossover so you don't need to buy those separately.
You can always buy used (passive systems can be had relatively cheaply), but if you go that route you'll probably buy twice as you upgrade. Active systems are the way to go for weight and convenience. If you get a lower end active system, you can turn the cheaper speakers into monitors as you upgrade.
You can always buy used (passive systems can be had relatively cheaply), but if you go that route you'll probably buy twice as you upgrade. Active systems are the way to go for weight and convenience. If you get a lower end active system, you can turn the cheaper speakers into monitors as you upgrade.
Man, I just scanned thorough your local Craigslist. It is (as we say down here) "eat up" with PA equipment. Heck I'm thinking of bringing a truck up there and buying some stuff to flip down here.
You don't need to spend $5000, especially if you buy used. Carvin sells a powered mixer which is not the best sounding unit by any means but it does provide 8 mike inputs and three 400 watt power amps for $550 (run stereo mains plus mono monitors). Then buy four speakers, two for mains, two for monitors and you're under $2000 brand new.
You can find similar systems selling used in your area for $1000 or sometimes less. Now that everyone is getting into digital mixers you can run from your phone and powered speakers, the older style of gear...powered mixers, passive speakers...is going for dirt cheap. A used Mackie or Yamaha powered mixer and some speakers and you're good to go. General rule of thumb for power is similar to bass rigs...you'll want around 500 watts minimum to drive your mains and your mains speakers should have 12" woofers minimum...if you need a heavier sound, get 15" woofers. For monitors, 12" woofers are fine...the vocals are what's important, not cranking kick drum and bass through the wedges.
The main thing to know is that outdoors requires way more power to sound as loud as indoor because there are no reflections off walls, floor and ceiling. I've used a system as I described above for many outdoor park gazebo gigs over the years. All instruments including bass and drums plus the vocals are miked up but it's loud enough and still clear just not arena rock loud...I've never had to drive it to the point of distortion, either. If your main use is outdoor gigs you might want a heftier system if you need to obtain really high volumes...more/bigger speakers and more wattage...which is where costs start increasing rapidly.
You can find similar systems selling used in your area for $1000 or sometimes less. Now that everyone is getting into digital mixers you can run from your phone and powered speakers, the older style of gear...powered mixers, passive speakers...is going for dirt cheap. A used Mackie or Yamaha powered mixer and some speakers and you're good to go. General rule of thumb for power is similar to bass rigs...you'll want around 500 watts minimum to drive your mains and your mains speakers should have 12" woofers minimum...if you need a heavier sound, get 15" woofers. For monitors, 12" woofers are fine...the vocals are what's important, not cranking kick drum and bass through the wedges.
The main thing to know is that outdoors requires way more power to sound as loud as indoor because there are no reflections off walls, floor and ceiling. I've used a system as I described above for many outdoor park gazebo gigs over the years. All instruments including bass and drums plus the vocals are miked up but it's loud enough and still clear just not arena rock loud...I've never had to drive it to the point of distortion, either. If your main use is outdoor gigs you might want a heftier system if you need to obtain really high volumes...more/bigger speakers and more wattage...which is where costs start increasing rapidly.
I did a bit a research, and it seems you cannot purchase the State of Pennsylvania...
I did a bit a research, and it seems you cannot purchase the State of Pennsylvania...
How 'bout just the pretzels?
Riis
+1 used. A lot of bands, churches, etc. are upgrading to digital, so there's a lot of good used analog gear available.
Consider spreading the load among your band members, if they're willing. I think it's a good idea for everybody to own at least some PA gear. It makes you more valuable when you're looking for other bands (& everybody needs to find a new band eventually). Maybe 1 guy owns a mixer, another one some speakers, another some mics, etc.
Another consideration is flexibility. I like having gear that can serve multiple roles. I especially like powered speakers that can be used for FOH mains, floor wedges, side fills, or whatever. An unpowered mixer with powered speakers lets you mix & match to cover a variety of situations.
Don't forget mics, stands, cables, adapters, cases, tables, carts, & all the other misc. little things needed to put a rig together. $50 here, $100 there, can all add up to a fair amount in a hurry.
Also, don't forget transportation. I learned that lesson the hard way, many years ago: Put together a huge PA system, light system, all sorts of assorted show stuff, & needed a 30+' truck to haul it all - but no money left to buy a truck, so we had to rent! It was all we could do to barely break even.
We have our own system for small to medium indoor gigs, that I purchased used, piece by piece for $3,000 USD. That includes a powered 12 channel mixer with built in effects and EQ, mains & stands, wedge monitors, 4 SM58 vocal mics, an effects rack with EQ, compressors, & effects, plus all cables, DI boxes, and mic stands.
If I were looking used for outdoor gigs, I would need more amps and mains, for a total of 5-6 thousand.
If I were looking used for outdoor gigs, I would need more amps and mains, for a total of 5-6 thousand.
Seems like I'd be looking at something at least 1000 watts.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
^^ why does that say great for band practices and singers? Couldn't I run the whole band through them?
*Edit I'm probably going to piece this together bit by bit. What do I look for to make sure all the units are compatible?
Peavey XR 600 B Powered PA Mixer 400BH - $150
also what do you think of that mixer? I may get the monitor and mixer first.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
^^ why does that say great for band practices and singers? Couldn't I run the whole band through them?
*Edit I'm probably going to piece this together bit by bit. What do I look for to make sure all the units are compatible?
Peavey XR 600 B Powered PA Mixer 400BH - $150
also what do you think of that mixer? I may get the monitor and mixer first.
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I am interested in something similar to what the OP is asking about. How would a portable system such as the Fender Passport Event or Yamaha StagePas 600i fair in this situation? What would the limitations be? I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.
Just to give you a feeling: I'm running FOH and play the occasional gig in a cafe nearby. They run a 15" powered sub with two 8" cabs very similar to this:
the box CL 108/115MKII Basis Bundle
It is a fine sounding setup. Outdoor with a wall to the back, it works if we're talking about doing the bassdrum and vocals through the set and the guitars play something in the 212 + 30W range.
I need a 500W head and a decent 212 to join in.
This setup could barely handle real rock, though.
I'd move it up a notch with 2 powered 18 subs and sattelites with 12s - this will meet your minimum requirements.
the box CL 108/115MKII Basis Bundle
It is a fine sounding setup. Outdoor with a wall to the back, it works if we're talking about doing the bassdrum and vocals through the set and the guitars play something in the 212 + 30W range.
I need a 500W head and a decent 212 to join in.
This setup could barely handle real rock, though.
I'd move it up a notch with 2 powered 18 subs and sattelites with 12s - this will meet your minimum requirements.
