Cost of PA?

[And I]

Here's an idea for a low budget system which will totally handle a few vocals and a guitar or two and maybe a kick drum. If you have a bass rig that can move enough air on it's own you can probably get by without that in the PA... But since I'm giving you the low budget option it's going to be bare bones and there are some compromises... Main one is you need to keep that stage volume reasonable.

Ok 2 of these:
Mackie Thump 1000W 15" Powered Speaker

2 or 3 of these for floor monitors:
Behringer Eurolive B208D 200W 8" Powered Speaker

This guy:
Soundcraft Signature 10 Mixer Package with Case and Cables
Or maybe this guy:
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProFX12v2

Get some mics, Mic stands, speaker stands, and cables. You're done. Totally bare bones budget system but will do the trick. Will be best if you only run vocals through it. If you keep your stage volume very low it should be okay handling more stuff.

a system that starts like this can be upgraded pretty easily. you could add a sub to handle the kick drum and a little bass guitar:
Mackie Thump 1200W 18" Powered Subwoofer

You could add some EQs, compressors, trade up for a larger mixer, a second sub, etc.

 

[MNAirHead]

I play these places all the time... Think multiple powered mains and used mixer

If you simplify and comb Craig's list your setup you should be able to get a starter setup in the 1500 range

 

[And I]

I am interested in something similar to what the OP is asking about. How would a portable system such as the Fender Passport Event or Yamaha StagePas 600i fair in this situation? What would the limitations be? I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

Fender passport is not enough power. You won't be able to get the vocals clean and loud enough unless you're a very quiet band in a small room.

 

[hrodbert696]

Seems like I'd be looking at something at least 1000 watts.

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^^ why does that say great for band practices and singers? Couldn't I run the whole band through them?

*Edit I'm probably going to piece this together bit by bit. What do I look for to make sure all the units are compatible?

Peavey XR 600 B Powered PA Mixer 400BH - $150

also what do you think of that mixer? I may get the monitor and mixer first.

Basically, for a PA, you've got three stages: mixer - amplifier - speaker. In a lot of PA gear, the amp is either built into the mixer (powered mixer) or into the speaker (active speakers), but you can also get separate amps and passive mixer and speakers. The Kustom speakers you linked to are passive speakers, so you would need an amp of some kind. The 60w power rating is just what they can handle, which is not a whole lot. So you would need to make sure you had an amp that wouldn't blow them out, and that ran through a 1/4" cord rather than an XLR. And make sure it's a speaker cable, running power through an instrument cable will blow it up. Given that, those would probably be fine as monitors if you're not crazy loud, but I don't think they'd be up to the job as mains.

I am interested in something similar to what the OP is asking about. How would a portable system such as the Fender Passport Event or Yamaha StagePas 600i fair in this situation? What would the limitations be? I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

Those are really for public speakers or for coffeehouse/acoustic act type of things. I wouldn't run a rock band through one.

 

[electracoyote]

OP needs to draw up a stage plot and think big. A system like @And I outlined above is where I'd be headed, and I'd pull out every creative financing trick in the book and hock grandma to get it.

When I invested for my band, I pulled out all the stops. 2 QSC powered 18" subs, two QSC powered 15" mains, QSC Touchmix mixer, a plethora of 15" wedge type plastic enclosure powered mains/monitors 300-500 watts (these things go on sale for around $200 a pop all the time and the technology has come a long way). My drummer plays an electronic kit, so he has the equivalent of a full P.A. all by himself, and if we ever want to go with more subs out front, we've got 'em. In full P.A. mode he wears in-ears anyway and we can use one sub and one main for his stage volume.

Last outdoor community gig we ran the 2 QSC mains and three 18" subs. People 50 yards out were complaining it was too loud and we had to take it down a notch. So we've got small to medium stages and outdoors well covered. We play a lot of ballrooms and event centers, so we have to be able to project and give an arena-type sound.

Think big and splurge. You won't regret it. Cut too many corners, you'll sound like a transistor radio in the corner.

 

[craigie]

My buddy spent about $5k CAD on a peavey XR1212 and electrovoice 15" mains and 12" monitors. With an additional 800 W external amp along with the 1200 W mixer. Actually too much power for his speakers but that's OK because we never need to run it hard and can expand easily. Oudoors it was fine with a wall behind us. If it were a big open stage we could rent a powered sub for the day pretty cheaply. The XR1212 has great sounding input channels and a very useful 4 band EQ on each. Think about how many monitor mixes you need as that mixer has 2 which is perfect for us. With a full band with drums I'd want more aux mixes though (we have MIDI). Buy good mics that sound good for your voice. The thing I hate most is he puts the "peavey smile" EQ on the mains which is just a big mid scoop that accentuates the boominess and harshness and destroys what I'm trying to achieve with the bass sound. And it's harder to charge enough to cover the costs. But we get tons of compliments on the sound.

 

[pie_man_25]

If I needed a PA, I'd hit up Kijiji so fast. Used hear is a great way to save some dosh. Also, rental isn't too expensive either of you don't need it long term.

 

[trevcda]

OP needs to draw up a stage plot and think big.

Maybe. But he really needs to think long term and return on investment. Believe me, I'm all for going big! I run a pair of SR4732X and SR4719X per side and 32 Soundcraft at FOH, with a separate monitor mixer side stage! But you have to realistically ask yourself, how many times a year can a I really deploy a system like this? Can I put it to work for other events other than my own? Can I afford to transport and insure all that gear? Where am I going to store it? Another problem with owning all that gear, is that if it is considered part of the band, often times you will be expected to provide that gear at no extra cost. Think about it; band A brings the cheapest crap-on-a-stick PA they can scrape together and gets paid the same as band B who brings a proper PA. How is that fair? Trust me, I've spent years trying to raise the bar for expectations on band PAs in my area and all I've managed to do is make it easier for everyone to go under it. And while it has no apparent value when my band brings a proper PA, I can rent that same PA starting around $750 a night. I get supremely irritated when someone books my band for a stupid low price and then expects me to just throw in my PA. As was mentioned above, I would rent a few times to figure out what the end result I was trying to achieve. Then make smart purchases towards that result.

 

[electracoyote]

Maybe. But he really needs to think long term and return on investment. Believe me, I'm all for going big!

Well, I don't really consider the system that @And I and I outlined "big," even in a relative sense. I consider mains and subs a basic system.

It's kind of the same with a bass rig. Go too small and your drummer is blowing you off the stage. I always advocate for going a little bigger than you think you need and using the volume controls to turn down in smaller spaces.

OP can decide, but anytime cutting corners and staying on a restrictive budget is in the picture, it almost always ends up being not enough. If he has to limit it and stay within a budget, I would consider two nice big powered mains, a few floor monitors loud enough to keep up with stage volume, and a good board the bare minimum. And if he gets that, he's only a couple of powered subs away from the whole enchilada.

I suppose renting is a viable option at the outset, although if you're certain you will inevitably need your own P.A. I would consider it money wasted.

 

[guitarflinger]

We bought this system 2 years ago and are very happy with it:

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We run everything through this, even drum mikes. This is a powered speaker system. You can add an unpowered mixing board for about $400 new (Behringer) though we are currently running a digital board on stage. We run both in ear monitors, and a couple of stage wedges for one guitarist. Our sound guy just cruises the performance space with an ipad making adjustments via wifi. You can also add to the Carvin system if you need more volume - I can't imagine we ever would at least for indoors.

 

[RustyAxe]

OP needs to draw up a stage plot

Now there's a reasonable place to start. Can't make any recommendation until he knows what he's looking to amplify. Those who fail to do this are either running systems that are too small, or w-a-y too big.

 

[SmokinJoe992]

Basically, for a PA, you've got three stages: mixer - amplifier - speaker. In a lot of PA gear, the amp is either built into the mixer (powered mixer) or into the speaker (active speakers), but you can also get separate amps and passive mixer and speakers. The Kustom speakers you linked to are passive speakers, so you would need an amp of some kind. The 60w power rating is just what they can handle, which is not a whole lot. So you would need to make sure you had an amp that wouldn't blow them out, and that ran through a 1/4" cord rather than an XLR. And make sure it's a speaker cable, running power through an instrument cable will blow it up. Given that, those would probably be fine as monitors if you're not crazy loud, but I don't think they'd be up to the job as mains.



Those are really for public speakers or for coffeehouse/acoustic act type of things. I wouldn't run a rock band through one.

So would a good passive analog mixer and a pair of powered amps be a better way to start? Would this be something that could be expanded down the road? Also for live sound what are the pros and cons of digital and analog mixer? passive and powered mixers and speakers?

 

[Steve]

a couple thoughts...

Any PA capable of doing a rock band outside... (unless it's amping vocals only and you're coming out of the gate backwards on the horse that way)...
Is probably more expensive than you want to spend unless it's going to get more than one off use. I would choose to rent a proper system rather than buy and beat something.

The Mackie thumps..I work in a band that bought 6 of those things and every one of them is garbage for live unmastered music. They may be of some use to a DJ that's looking for the hip hop boom sizzle but, if you want flat, broad spectrum response that you can work with, they are garbage. That 1000 watts is also 500 watts to the 15 and the other 500 watts goes to the tweet which you could vaporize if it ever saw a 100 watts so, it's way more marketing point than anything else

 

[PortlandBass77]

Depends: do you want a DIY system or a full out fancy 'professional' system?

I could put together a PA system to support 300 people for probably $300 - $500 (depending on the deals) by piecing together stuff from craigslist.

Or you could get a ready build PA system for probably $1k - $2k....

 

[pbassjbass]

Hire a good sound company, they'll have a variety of equipment allowing them to tailor the system to the environment. They'll know how to use it. They'll transport, and setup it up, properly. They also usually have lights if those are needed.

We have a small sound craft "sound on a stick" system, good for small venues (small clubs, house parties, back yard BBQ's). We don't carry monitors. Any job that system won't handle, we use hired sound, and it's priced into the quote.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

This is what we use at all but the tiniest venues: Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 3, Drive Rack, EQ's for mains and each monitor mix, Compressors, QSC amps, JBL PRX mains/subs, Yamaha 15" wedges, snake, 58's on vocals, 57 on guitar amp and Beta 52A's on kick and bass. The MixWizard is amazing in its capabilities. We run three independent monitor mixes (up to six is possible) without another board. Then of course you'll need cables and stands. This set-up is very flexible. Not too huge for small clubs but powerful enough for anything we'll ever play. And it sounds fantastic. Rough estimate if you bought it all new, $7500 maybe. I know that's a chunk but you'll never need anything else.

 

[electracoyote]

Hire a good sound company, they'll have a variety of equipment allowing them to tailor the system to the environment. They'll know how to use it. They'll transport, and setup it up, properly. They also usually have lights if those are needed.

Good idea, if your area will support it.

In my area, there are around 3 or 4 guys/companies that I consider 1. Good sound engineers with good equipment, and 2. Reasonably priced. And every other band in town knows about these 3 or 4 guys, and they are booked over a year in advance, very difficult to nail them down for a gig.

Otherwise I'm stuck with the over-priced sound companies, and there are plenty of those, but if I padded their fee into what I ask of the client, I'd either never get booked or I'd never have much left over to pay my hard-working musicians.

 

[brianrost]

I am interested in something similar to what the OP is asking about. How would a portable system such as the Fender Passport Event or Yamaha StagePas 600i fair in this situation? What would the limitations be? I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question.

300 people outdoors? Limitations would be volume before distortion kicks in, weak low end (forget miking drums), competing with stage amps. For anything more than a singer and a acoustic guitar, forget about it.

The speakers are too small, not enough wattage to drive them.

 

[the yeti]

i've got aboot 3k in mine. it'll do what you described with 4 vocals, bass, drums, 2 guitars, keys in foh. only 2 mon mixes though...

 

[hrodbert696]

OP needs to draw up a stage plot and think big. A system like @And I outlined above is where I'd be headed, and I'd pull out every creative financing trick in the book and hock grandma to get it.

Think big and splurge. You won't regret it. Cut too many corners, you'll sound like a transistor radio in the corner.

I think you're in a whole other ball park than the OP is, based on the CL ads he's looking at. It's all very well to say, "splurge!", but you can't splurge with money that doesn't exist. Unless I'm mistaken, he's in the position many of us have been in, trying to figure out how to pull this off with the bare bare bare BAREST of bones to invest.

So would a good passive analog mixer and a pair of powered amps be a better way to start? Would this be something that could be expanded down the road? Also for live sound what are the pros and cons of digital and analog mixer? passive and powered mixers and speakers?

Just about anything can be expanded or upgraded. Like I said, the middle component - the amp itself - is often built into either the mixer or the speakers. The only real downside is that if your amp goes down, then you lose the mixer (or speaker) too. Personally, I find passive mixer/active speakers to be the better combination for a small band - seems easier to load in and out, and if you lose the amp in one main at least you still have the other. In the setup I have that I described, the speakers that are serving as mains now can rotate to monitors if I buy better ones.

Everything is trending towards digital now, and I have to say that I don't really know the advantages and disadvantages of that vs analog, except that most digital systems allow you to mix from a wireless tablet so you aren't tied to the board. I'm not really posting as an expert on live sound, but rather as someone who sympathizes with the OP and the need to get playing on a shoestring when the $5k PA is out of the question.

Carvin is listing this as out of stock, but it gives an idea of a minimal system AFAIC. XP800L-PM10 6 Channel PA System $700 and you can get sound out there. No, I know, sound guys, it's a far from optimal system. But for guys on a shoestring, like I say, it will get their voices out till they can afford better.

Any PA capable of doing a rock band outside... (unless it's amping vocals only and you're coming out of the gate backwards on the horse that way)...
Is probably more expensive than you want to spend unless it's going to get more than one off use. I would choose to rent a proper system rather than buy and beat something.

Yeah, I was assuming it's a given that the OP is talking about buying a PA for long-term use. If this is a one-time thing, just rent it. You could rent a setup for $100 a night that would cost you $1500 to buy. Stops making sense if it's going to be used for 15 or more gigs.