counting in

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Tez, Oct 26, 2004.

  1. Tez


    Jan 24, 2004
    Hi All Regarding counting in a peice of music!

    I have a problem with a musical director of a big band that I play with (she) allways counts in a cut common piece with "one two one two" I totaly disagree with this and have voiced my opinion to her . it should be counted One two 1234, as I have been taught that cut common is 4/4 with a 2/4 feel .
    every small Jazz combo I have played with counted 1 2 1234
    for cut common
    You could say whats the problem ? well whenever she counts with only the the 2/4 pulse the Band allways starts to play under the tempo and she bitches!
    It is my belief if she counted correctly 1 2 1234 the tempo would be more readily recognised and establised .

    what do you think does anuone have a link to a site that will clarify this for me or cut and past from a theory book to prove or disprove my point
    regards Tez
  2. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo gone to Longstanton Spice Museum

    Feb 8, 2003
    I think a rule of thumb ought to be, if it works, it works

    as far as i'm concerned, i'd rather hear '1234' than '1 2' (which probably ought to be '1 3' anyway :) ), but a well rehearsed band (especially one with a conductor) generally ought to be able to start without a count in... for a few of the songs my band does, we just start with a snare on the '4' and away we go...
  3. Tez


    Jan 24, 2004
    snare on the 4. is a count in ! as most modern music is in4 ? 4 many Jazz arrangements are in cut common ie 4/ 4 wiyh a 2 / 4 feel
  4. Tez


    Jan 24, 2004
    Come on Bass pro's some input would be good
  5. Christopher


    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    Technically, she is correct. But technique is meaningless if it fails to elicit a practical result. If it sounds bad and the tempo is dragging, what good does it matter if she's counting "properly"?

    Ideally, of course, the band should be so tight that it can set the correct tempo on its own. Then you can give the director the heave-ho.
  6. Really you can count-in any way you want. All a count-in is something that sets the tempo for the song. Several I've heard:

    One, two, one two three four

    One, two, ready, play

    One, two, one, two (more of a conductor kind of count-in)

    One two three two two three (standard waltz count-in)
  7. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    This to me, suggets compound time count in, because it specifies two beats divided into three...

    There are certain ways of counting certain meters, IMO. I would expect:

    one two three four -(or four stick clicks) for standard time

    one two three -for waltz time

    one two three, two two three -for compound time

    one two, one two three four -for cut time

    Snare on 4 is fine, but it only works if the band is 100% fine going straight into tempo with no indication, but generally speaking I dont call that a count in, more a cue. It works fine the middle of songs to bering the back back in after a period of free time.
  8. CAM


    Mar 10, 2003
    mongo's house
    try this....when she counts one two, count with her but counting 1 2 3 4. so she'd be saying two when you'd be saying 3!
  9. jive1

    jive1 Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 16, 2003
    Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
    I consider the count in crucial for getting the feel, as well as the tempo. Regardless of the count, the proof is in the pudding. If the count confuses the musicians then it is useless. I'm glad I'm not a classical musician that uses silent counts that require the nodding of heads, etc.

    Just for fun, we do counts like:
    uh-1-uh-2 he knows what to do (works well for Bossas)
    1-2-3, dog has fleas
  10. That's a brilliant idea. I'm sure the audience would appreciate goofy count-ins!