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Counting vs Feeling it

Counting time vs feeling time

  • Count

    Votes: 12 18.2%

  • Feel it!

    Votes: 54 81.8%
  • Total voters
    66
#21
Drifta said:
Thanks man, one thing that fudges me up is like saying the number in my head + tapping foot at same time... I mean if i can tap my foot i WILL be on time..of course not if i'm sight reading(which is my goal). so i find my self counting and not tapping my foot when practicing my reading rhythm notation, and i always remember my first bass teacher (who i respect alot, and would have kept studying with if i hadnt moved) used to preach never let your foot stop moving! lol its a work in progress. can't wait till it's second nature and i'm walking along to the standards @ the jazz jams...:bassist:
Click to expand...
Exactly...it's a work in progress. Don't get impatient. You're on the right track.
 
#22
I always like to feel the song and know the changes but sometimes, especially playing stuff I've never played before and weird odd time stuff, I have to count. There are times in our music where there's nothing going on but vocals singing one note and I have to bring it back in a beat before the drums kick in. I can't necessarily feel that so counting is my only option. If I screw up then everyone screws up.
 
#25
Drifta said:
Thanks man, one thing that fudges me up is like saying the number in my head + tapping foot at same time... I mean if i can tap my foot i WILL be on time..of course not if i'm sight reading(which is my goal). so i find my self counting and not tapping my foot when practicing my reading rhythm notation, and i always remember my first bass teacher (who i respect alot, and would have kept studying with if i hadnt moved) used to preach never let your foot stop moving! lol its a work in progress. can't wait till it's second nature and i'm walking along to the standards @ the jazz jams...:bassist:
Click to expand...
We are usually counting to figure out the rhythm of a part. Once we get it down we count to keep time. Once we establish the time / groove we can usually stop counting and go with the flow.

It’s rare that we read a part sight unseen for the first time without being able to prepare. A walking bass line of quarter notes shouldn’t give most of us any trouble. It’s the odd syncopations and tricky intervals that can trip even the best of us.

Always try to read through the part looking for potentially difficult passages. Take a few minutes to look over these sections and play them slowly. Familiarize yourself with the patterns within and structure of the tune. Relax, and play. If anything doesn’t work out, ask for help. Very often some other member of the rhythm section, the band leader or the composer, will go over a tough passage with you; and we all know it’s easier to reproduce a part we’ve heard than to hear an unfamiliar part in your head.

You’ll know when to count and you’ll know when you’re in the pocket.
 
#26
Drifta said:
thanks man... apopka? isnt that in the orlando area? i am new to orlando area (student).. by chance you know of any jazz jams around orlando? i just wanna go and listen, i only know of the one out here on wednesday nights next to ucf(natura cafe)
Click to expand...
Nope, I don't get out much to jazz jams. And yeah, Apopka's on the northwest side of Orlando and you're on the east side, probably a good 45 minute drive away. I know there are a few places that have jazz, but they're usually restaurants, and I don't know of any names to give you.
 
#28
"Feeling" the count is really about doing it so often that one does it automatically without having to consciously think about it. This takes time (ie. years) to become proficient at and naturally the easier stuff - like 12 bar blues for example - becomes automatic after only a few years on bass. If one often plays complex time and polyrhythms then that can be played by feel rather than by counting, as well.

Like most any complex skill, it just takes practice, practice practice.
 
#30
When it comes to odd time signatures, I've found that it's nearly impossible for me to count while I'm actually playing (live, recording, etc.), but that's what practicing is for. I'll play through the section enough times while counting to where it feels natural and I don't have to count anymore. I voted for feeling it, but I really do both. Counting is crucial in some situations imo depending on the complexity of the rhythmic structure.
 
#33
totallyfrozen said:
Feeling IS counting.
Instead of thinking verbally 1 - 2 - 3 - 4, your BODY is doing that.
There is no difference between counting the beats and feeling the beat. Feeling is counting. It's just that simple.
Click to expand...

I partially agree, unless I'm playing something in 11/8 at about 208 bpm for the first time. Then counting becomes somewhat of an independent process until I'm able to feel it.
 
#34
Drifta said:
Thanks man, one thing that fudges me up is like saying the number in my head + tapping foot at same time... I mean if i can tap my foot i WILL be on time..of course not if i'm sight reading(which is my goal). so i find my self counting and not tapping my foot when practicing my reading rhythm notation, and i always remember my first bass teacher (who i respect alot, and would have kept studying with if i hadnt moved) used to preach never let your foot stop moving! lol its a work in progress. can't wait till it's second nature and i'm walking along to the standards @ the jazz jams...:bassist:
Click to expand...

You could try what Gary Willis does... don't tap your foot, keep your toes planted and move the back part of your foot up and down. It'll give your brain a solid, non verbal count. Pretty hard to play out of time against it. He also breaks the count into smaller increments than quarter notes. Pretty hard to play out of time against it.
 
#37
IdealWay said:
I partially agree, unless you're playing something in 11/8 at about 208 bpm for the first time. Then counting becomes somewhat of an independent process until I'm able to feel it.
Click to expand...

It even depends upon HOW you split the 11/8 (from 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to 5+3+3 and so on). Add the sense of rubato in the equation and feeling becomes even more important when it comes to internalize music.
 
#38
fullrangebass said:
It even depends upon HOW you split the 11/8 (from 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 to 5+3+3 and so on). Add the sense of rubato in the equation and feeling becomes even more important when it comes to internalize music.
Click to expand...

True, there are many factors to the equation. For the first time through a piece in odd time, I usually have to count to some degree. Then the way the count is split (4+4+3 for the song we worked on last night) can be emphasized by the drummer's pulse, naturally facilitating internalization. Feeling the count is my goal for any song.
 
#39
this is a useless poll without the a choice reflecting obvious answer: they both matter

i cant count worth ***t. it hasn't really hindered me thus far. i have real good feel and can play in or out of pocket and can improvise and describe my rhythms and communicate them. It would take a real long time for me to figure out how to write them out, and that is something i need to work on. It would help my reading and it is something I need to work on. I also sometimes can't even count while I am playing, and in general, I don't, unless I am practicing doing so.
Both learning to write and read rhythm and learning to count better while i play would greatly supplement my more viceral intuitions and feel with the more brainy side of music.

As with everything in music, its a balance.
A quality instrument will improve your sound, but more so, you're fingers will.
EQing a terribly mic'd recording will help it a lot but it will never sound great.
Scooping the mids will help your tone (given that you want THAT tone), but not too much buddy, you'll never cut through it.
 
#40
PS i didn't vote

PPS i can also handle odd meters, and i do count while i play these. I feel like when I count anything, its just like im singing, and i cant play the same type of stuff (ie not as creative). Real counting means counting and subdividing and knowing where within the count your beats fall and being able to verbalize it while you are playing this stuff.
 

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