Country players..

[Ferret]

I switched to a 5 string in 1985 playing country. I still use this bass to this day and would put the sound against any Fender. If I try to use any other bass in studios they complain. If I showed up with a wash tub and a string attached, as long as it sounded great so what who makes it.

 

[FromTheBassMent]

...saying the B string is useless on the P5 must come from someone who just doesn't like a P bass tone.

Wrong. I love a P bass tone. But on both passive P 5's I've had the opportunity to play and tinker with, the B string sounded nothing like the tone of the other four strings (which sounded just like a P bass, of course). The problem was not with the volume, it was that the tone had none of that trademark P girth. Anything below the F on 6th fret sounded more like a wet Godzilla fart than a musical note. If all notes coming out of a P sounded like wet Godzilla farts, then yes, I would be someone who "just doesn't like P bass tone." Fortunately, the other four strings have no flatulence problems, reptilian or otherwise.

 

[electracoyote]

Tom Scott and David Sanborn can play what they want - but they probably endured some similar treatment before anyone knew who they were. But they are "seasoned pros", as you say.

Dude-from-nowhere who wants to make it big is generally not a seasoned pro, no matter how great a player he/she might be. That's me... been playing for almost 25 years, had some local success, been on a few CD's of various genres, but by anyone's standard of "seasoned pro", I'm not one.

I've got a friend in Seattle who IS a seasoned pro. He has worked with one producer famous for a lot of the Seattle alternative bands that refuses to allow anything other than a real '62P. It happens.

Not saying it's right or wrong - just that it has and will happen.

Good point.

That producer's attitude would probably work with up-and-comers, from whom he's probably seen his share of unacceptable gear and decided to nip it in the bud.

It wouldn't work with seasoned pros who had been in and out of the studio a few times and come prepared for the track.

 

[electracoyote]

Wrong. I love a P bass tone. But on both passive P 5's I've had the opportunity to play and tinker with, the B string sounded nothing like the tone of the other four strings (which sounded just like a P bass, of course). The problem was not with the volume, it was that the tone had none of that trademark P girth. Anything below the F on 6th fret sounded more like a wet Godzilla fart than a musical note. If all notes coming out of a P sounded like wet Godzilla farts, then yes, I would be someone who "just doesn't like P bass tone." Fortunately, the other four strings have no flatulence problems, reptilian or otherwise.

Another vote for Fender 5th string sounding a little mushy. I tried a couple and gave up. I'm sure there are some guys who have figured a way to make them acceptable, but I sure haven't.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Do you really need a 5 string for Country?
Why?
(not a troll post; a legit question)

All the country songs that I've played and all the songs I hear on the radio (NEW songs: Lady Antebellum, Taylor Swift, Billy Currington, Keith Urban, etc.) can all be played with a 4 string. At least it seems that way to me. I've never heard or played a country song where I've found myself hearing (or needing) any notes below an open E.

CAN be played... and likely can be played on a three-string bass, or a two-string bass, or maybe even a one-string bass... you just might miss some high or low end depending on what strings are left out. (not a troll response; a legit response minus any sarcasm)

If someone asks you to play a country song "like the record", and that happens to have been done with a five-string bass, guess what? You need to play that with a five-string bass, unless you can prove you can comfortably play it exactly like the record with a four-string bass and various detunings and whatnot.

There is lots of great 5-string work in country music. And even in stuff that is quite country-influenced.

 

[gm2_in_co]

Yeah, my kids tend to exaggerate too.

So if someone like Tom Scott or David Sanborn walked into a Manhattan studio with something other than a Selmer Mark VI, tracked an incredible solo both sonically and technically, made the engineer and producer happy, he'd get laughed at?

I'm laughing a little at that notion myself right now.

Overt gear snobbery is for rank amatures. No engineer, producer, or musician of note that I know has ever engaged in such childishness.

Now, once a piece of gear has proven itself inadequate, then suggestions for more reliable alternates becomes appropriate. But telling a seasoned pro his gear is "wrong" based on brand/model alone? Ridiculous.

OK, so you're trading one name for another ie, Scott, Sanborn for Selmer. Also, my daughter is a 21 year old "kid" but also a working pro and exaggerates no more than you from the sounds of it.

 

[electracoyote]

OK, so you're trading one name for another ie, Scott, Sanborn for Selmer. Also, my daughter is a 21 year old "kid" but also a working pro and exaggerates no more than you from the sounds of it.

Yeah, I have a 19-year-old "kid."

Okay, nice zinger, perhaps I am exaggerating a bit for effect to counter the gear snobs out there. If so, it's refreshing to hear you admit your daughter's tales of gear snobbery also qualify as exaggeration.

Perhaps she is referring to isolated circumstances, much like lowfreqgeek did in an earlier post? I think my hypothetical about Sanborn and Scott was valid, maybe you can elaborate on your daughter's situation and position?

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Perhaps she is referring to isolated circumstances, much like lowfreqgeek did in an earlier post? I think my hypothetical about Sanborn and Scott was valid, maybe you can elaborate on your daughter's situation and position?

Except the producer in the situation I mentioned (the one who required a '62 P) didn't distinguish between "no-name-kid" and "seasoned 20-year working session pro from L.A." (my friend). He didn't care who you were - you had to use his gear.

Isolated to that producer, probably so. But not isolated to circumstances ("seasoned pro" vs. inexperienced player).

The best engineer I've worked with to date (a staff engineer at The Village Recorders) was super easy to work with and let me do as I thought best - with his guidance. I did switch to a Pbass for a few tracks and it worked out great, but it wasn't cause anyone told me I had to - it just fit.

 

[electracoyote]

He didn't care who you were - you had to use his gear.

This would no doubt limit him to who he could, and who he could not, work with.

If he wants to be that narrow and treat everyone (regardless of their experience and abilities) like a noob, that's his business.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

This would no doubt limit him to who he could, and who he could not, work with.

If he wants to be that narrow and treat everyone (regardless of their experience and abilities) like a noob, that's his business.

I totally agree with you. My only point was that it does happen to/with pros, too.

 

[electracoyote]

I totally agree with you. My only point was that it does happen to/with pros, too.

Right, and you were rational to admit that it's probably an isolated thing.

Before anyone goes off the deep end, I'm not questioning anyone's character. I am merely pointing out the exaggerated human nature behind some of these stories.

This particular branch of the thread stems from two sentiments 1) "If you don't play this specific make, model, or configuration then..." 2) "You will be laughed at."

I always initially find both of those blanket statements suspicious, it sounds very rumor-mill and biased, and that's all I was trying to say.

Yes, the Selmer Mk VI is a very popular saxophone, and the Fender Precision 4-string is a very popular bass.

But I have to believe that those two blanket statements above only accurately and factually apply to any piece of gear on a very limited or isolated basis.

 

[pauldebass]

not meaning to highjack this thread but re the downtuning, I can see downtuning to d for the low D and the amount of songs in that key but why detune to c#?

 

[Baron Von Vik]

4-string. Who cares what model.

Show me a country song with an intricate bass line, and I'll point out that it's actually southern rock.

"Doomb, daaamb, doom-pa doomb doomb DOOMB daamb doomp..."

 

[Nashrakh]

A friend of mine plays in a fairly well-known country band over here.

He mainly plays 4 string Jazzes, no 5ers. Seems to work for what he does.

He also uses fretless Jazzes and an Electric Upright, depending on the song (usually he has 3 basses on stage - a fretted Jazz, a fretless Jazz, and the EURB)

His amp is an Ashdown (forget which model, somewhere midprice range) and a simple Crate 4x10.

And his sound kicks ass... I think it's more in your attitude than your rig. Though YMMV.

 

[NathanTbass]

not meaning to highjack this thread but re the downtuning, I can see downtuning to d for the low D and the amount of songs in that key but why detune to c#?

lots of songs in country are in E and you can hit that 6 minor (which normally appears at a mood change in the song ie the bridge) lower to evoke that change...sometimes it works wonderfully, and other times its just silly to go that low

Also, with the songs being in D, its nice to use the C# as the passing tone back to the 1, or using it as the 7 of a 5/7 (A/C#) chord. Loads of songs do the ol' faithful descending chord progression (1-5/7-6-4 or D-A/C#-Bm-G) in which the C# is helpful if you're starting out low...

Hope that helps some...of course I could be totally wrong, which seems to be the case by the way responses to my opinions in this thread are going haha

 

[zachbass02]

Like most of us here in Nashville playing with legit country artists, you'll notice we all do kinda the same thing. You'll rarely see a 5 string. You may think its a 5 you're hearing on the record, but its normally a 4 tuned down either a whole step or a whole step and a half. The sound you get when doing this is a lot different from a 5 string. In some circles you will be made fun of if you pull a 5 string out...just a word of warning
Amps are normally used just for looks or stage monitoring...you will almost always go Direct. I never leave home without my Aguilar ToneHammer. Others use a U5, but I prefer the tone of the Aguilar...
Just my opinions and thoughts from the Country Music Capital of the world...

ehhh...I dunno about that. I know a lot of working guys here in town (myself included) that are doing just fine with 5ers for live stuff. I personally don't like playing a detuned 4.....if I was forced to, to keep/get the gig, I would, but typically don't. Never "been made fun of" for pulling out a 5 string...now a 6er on the other hand would be pushing it (unless your Keith Horne) who by the way was out with Luke Bryan recently with his Warrior 6....just saying.

bottom line: was having this discussion with a guitar player friend here in town that is working with and has worked many "legit country artists". Play the best gear you can afford and flipping rock the crap out of it. When all the "vintage gear" that everyone is so crazy about was being used to create amazing records 30-40 years ago, it was brand new stuff and was the best that players could afford at the time. No different today. Get the best gear you can and play. If you're good and a good hang, you'll be working. If you suck and are a good hang, you'll still probably be working. =)

 

[Lync]

Don't want to wreck the thread..."take that redneck stuff outside", but for the life of me, I can't understand the B string issues with the P5? It sounds like the other strings, and for country music, it works real well. It's not like I need an open B that sounds like a piano. I mainly use it for the low D (sometimes C#) and the open B is generally a passing tone. It has thump, with clarity with the new bridge and a resonant body. If I was playing new jazz or something, I could see there being much better instruments and a need for a different B string (ringing piano), but the P5 gives you a traditional look with those extra low notes available. Just set it up...

Still though...if I was required to play a 4, I would go with what it takes to get (and keep) the gig.

 

[zachbass02]

Still though...if I was required to play a 4, I would go with what it takes to get (and keep) the gig.

+1...not sure if I was clear in my prior post, even though I primarily play 5s and will do so unless requested to not do so. If someone else is signing that check, I'm gonna play whatever they want me to play. If it's a detuned 4 string, so be it. If it's a 1 string washtub, I could manage. If they want me to fart on a snare drum on 2 & 4....well you get the point.

I think Nathan and masmasbasso made some good/great points, but I also think they made some broad generalizations that aren't entirely accurate about "everyone in country in Nashville are playing 4s now". A lot of guys are rockin' 4s, but a lot are still on 5s. Depends on what circles and players you're around I guess. But like Nathan said, a lot of the prejudices that musicians deal with in Nashville only exist in Nashville. Outside of this town, they aren't as prevelant.

 

[NathanTbass]

+1...not sure if I was clear in my prior post, even though I primarily play 5s and will do so unless requested to not do so. If someone else is signing that check, I'm gonna play whatever they want me to play. If it's a detuned 4 string, so be it. If it's a 1 string washtub, I could manage. If they want me to fart on a snare drum on 2 & 4....well you get the point.

I think Nathan and masmasbasso made some good/great points, but I also think they made some broad generalizations that aren't entirely accurate about "everyone in country in Nashville are playing 4s now". A lot of guys are rockin' 4s, but a lot are still on 5s. Depends on what circles and players you're around I guess. But like Nathan said, a lot of the prejudices that musicians deal with in Nashville only exist in Nashville. Outside of this town, they aren't as prevelant.

+1...I agree with this...including that I may have generalized Nashville...but it is, unfortunately, something I run into quite often. It totally depends on the circle you run in.
maybe the disgruntled discussion that I unintentionally started will come to a close with this summary you just provided.

 

[zachbass02]

+1...I agree with this...including that I may have generalized Nashville...but it is, unfortunately, something I run into quite often. It totally depends on the circle you run in.
maybe the disgruntled discussion that I unintentionally started will come to a close with this summary you just provided.

haha...unfortunate that it can get so heated on here. You still playing for Stephanie Smith? I played some tracks on Loren Prothero's solo project he was working on and played for Steph on a couple of things before her first record dropped.