- Jun 16, 2010
- 56
- 1
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, dAddario, Kala uBass
"You might think differently about if you were paying your mortgage with your gig."
Nice....touché sir.
Nice....touché sir.
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Country players..
- Thread starter deltadave
- Start date
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
Like most of us here in Nashville playing with legit country artists, you'll notice we all do kinda the same thing. You'll rarely see a 5 string. You may think its a 5 you're hearing on the record, but its normally a 4 tuned down either a whole step or a whole step and a half. The sound you get when doing this is a lot different from a 5 string. In some circles you will be made fun of if you pull a 5 string out...just a word of warning
..
The discrimination continues.
This thread has inspired me to try a de-tuned 4. I mostly play 5s but I love the feel of a 4. I pulled my Yamaha BB1500A out of the closet and tuned her down a whole step to DGCF and after a quick tweak of the truss rod she was good to go. It sounds pretty dang good. It has D'Addario Nickel 105-45s on it right now. I may try one step up and see how they feel. I just may leave it this way for a while. I'll have to try it on a gig to see how it works.
It's funny how fast trends change. I remember talking with Joey Canaday (Leann Rimes) 4 years ago and he told me all his basses were tuned down a whole step and how awesome and thick it sounds. It is harder to play with a heavy hand, but it does sound awesome. I never heard people doing that as a rule of thumb until he told me. Now its common practice it seems.
- Nov 7, 2006
- 751
- 19
- Disclosures
- Endorsing-Trace Elliot,Peavey Basses,PedalTrain,Starkey inears
Without a doubt that is the current "style". I basically use the P5 since it looks pretty authentic and I don't want to have to learn tunes differently depending on the instrument (sometimes I play certain tunes on the upright, and sometimes electric).
I'd like to see what the guy who plays live with Darius Rucker uses live since there are a bunch of low notes in his tunes.
I have to say...that Little Big Town gig is very cool=congrats on that. Great band with excellent tunes/harmonies. Plus the women in the band look pretty good to me.
John plays Fender 5's...Great player and super nice guy!
Subscribed. I love hearing from working bassists and I am fascinated with "Nashville" stories. I don't understand all the negative comments in defense of 5 or more strings. The undeniable fact is there are some bands, producers, and sound engineers who are going to "laugh" at anything that isn't a four string Fender P.
Anyone who makes the argument that they are going to bring whatever they dang well please to an audition or they can go to blazes already has already demonstrated they don't have what it takes to get along and play well with others. If someone is paying me to do a job and they require I play a two string wishbass, that's what I'm gonna play. If I play with an artist who is flexible and openminded I would play my faves of course.
Bottom line, there isn't a whole lot of demand for inflexible, opinionated, arrogant, stubborn rookie musicians. You can be all of that later after you've established yourself
Anyone who makes the argument that they are going to bring whatever they dang well please to an audition or they can go to blazes already has already demonstrated they don't have what it takes to get along and play well with others. If someone is paying me to do a job and they require I play a two string wishbass, that's what I'm gonna play. If I play with an artist who is flexible and openminded I would play my faves of course.
Bottom line, there isn't a whole lot of demand for inflexible, opinionated, arrogant, stubborn rookie musicians. You can be all of that later after you've established yourself
I recently took a Peavey G-Bass in trade for some stuff and I've been wondering what to do with it. It's Peavey's graphite neck, single pickup bass - and it's a 35" scale. Cool bass with insane sustain, clarity, and evenness throughout.
So what else could I do with it but detune it? Well, ok, I can think of a lot to do with it, but... it sounds pretty incredible detuned. It's a little "thin" sounding at standard tuning (without some EQ), but the thickness it obtains tuning down a whole step is really cool. I can't wait to hear how it'll sound recorded.
Good stuff.
- Jun 16, 2010
- 56
- 1
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Aguilar Amplification, dAddario, Kala uBass
This thread has finally taken a turn for the good...the last few posts have made my day. I'm glad there are people on TB who aren't afraid to try something and take advice before getting into an opinion battle!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hawkeye
Canuck Amateur
I get it that a Fender Precision is "the sound of bass" for some producers / artists and unless they get that it won't be what they want. That being said, my alder/rosewood Sadowsky RV5 PJ has a Nordstrand split pick-up and absolutely nails a P-bass tone. I've owned two Fender MIA 4-string Precisions so I think I can say this with some certainty. If I was to bring it to a recording session or gig, would I get no respect because it's not a Fender?
I just don't get some of the "orthodoxies" that have developed, especially for bass players.
- Do you think that saxophone players get "laughed at" if they don't bring a Selmer to a session?
- What about drummers? Do they need Evans or Remo skins so they don't get "laughed at". Are Pearl, Yamaha, or DW shells the correct choice for a gig?
- Do recording engineers "laugh" at a Yamaha grand piano because it's not a Baldwin?
- Do acoustic guitarists get "laughed at" because they bring a Martin instead of a Taylor to a session? How do producers and artists come down on the Gibson vs. Fender argument for electric guitars? There must have been a few fist-fights over that one.
Sorry, don't mean to be pedantic and go on about these analogies, but I think they help put this argument into perspective.
Why do we allow these curious "must-have" orthodoxies to be perpetuated in the bass guitar world.
Must be Fender Precision, must go DI into the board and not through an amp, must be a 4-string. Sheesh.
It's not that a producer / artist with clear sonic vision should "go to blazes" as you put it. As bassists, we're here as an integral part of the team to help obtain the final sound that the artist / producer wants. It's the sonic result that's important. How you get there is someone irrelevant isn't it? The prevailing country orthodoxy apparently insists on a particular process and methodology, but it's the sonic product end result that's important. It's either laziness on the part of producers and artists or they just don't trust bassists (for whatever reason).
If the producer says "I want a Fender P-bass sound" then it's our responsibility to dial it up. However, I can give them exactly that with a 5-string Sadowsky PJ or Fender P5, or Lakland BG5 and not necessarily a detuned Fender P4. Why should it matter as long as it sounds like a P-bass. Is it that we can't be trusted? Are we too dumb to figure it out?
Personally, I think my Reverend 5L with flats and switch set at mid position for single coil neck p/up sounds fantastic for country tunes, but what do I know.
My point is I don't understand why so many players are offended at the thought of being told what brand to play if they want to play for a major artist. I'm looking at it solely from my personal perspective, which is unknown rookie. I've been playing bass for more than 25 years, and if I had been given the opportunity to audition and play for a major act, I would joyfully play whatever brand they preferred. I would even play the songs they wanted to do, they way they asked me to play them
I think the general advice for someone with no prior connections coming to Nashville to audition is valid. Whether it's fair or biased is beside the point. If what I'm hearing from working bassists in Nashville that their advice is to bring a four stringer, I would tend to listen to that advice. I haven't played my '66 Fender Precision for 8 years now, I've moved on to Dingwalls and Ritter 5 string basses, but I don't play in Nashville. I play in a cover band for MY enjoyment, and select my equipment based on what I want to hear.
If I were ever to be called for an audition with a big name working artist, you better believe in addition to my Dingwall Z3 and Ritter Roya I'll have that old faithful '66 P with me. My name is Jeff Roller, no one knows who that is. If my name were Leland Sklar, the person calling me in for an audition already knows what I'm bringing.
Again, it's not about arguing whether it's fair or not, lots of things in life aren't fair. If you want to play a 17 string bass through a gorilla amp, that's your choice. Build a band around that, sell a gazillion records. I for one appreciate the perspective and advice from working musicians on what it takes to break in and play for a living. It lets me peek inside their world for a moment. Meanwhile, I go back to reality this weekend playing covers in a dive bar, where no one really cares how much my bass cost me or how long I've worked to perfect my tone, invariably someone is going to shout they want to hear Curtis Lowe about five times before the night is over.
Perspective.
I think the general advice for someone with no prior connections coming to Nashville to audition is valid. Whether it's fair or biased is beside the point. If what I'm hearing from working bassists in Nashville that their advice is to bring a four stringer, I would tend to listen to that advice. I haven't played my '66 Fender Precision for 8 years now, I've moved on to Dingwalls and Ritter 5 string basses, but I don't play in Nashville. I play in a cover band for MY enjoyment, and select my equipment based on what I want to hear.
If I were ever to be called for an audition with a big name working artist, you better believe in addition to my Dingwall Z3 and Ritter Roya I'll have that old faithful '66 P with me. My name is Jeff Roller, no one knows who that is. If my name were Leland Sklar, the person calling me in for an audition already knows what I'm bringing.
Again, it's not about arguing whether it's fair or not, lots of things in life aren't fair. If you want to play a 17 string bass through a gorilla amp, that's your choice. Build a band around that, sell a gazillion records. I for one appreciate the perspective and advice from working musicians on what it takes to break in and play for a living. It lets me peek inside their world for a moment. Meanwhile, I go back to reality this weekend playing covers in a dive bar, where no one really cares how much my bass cost me or how long I've worked to perfect my tone, invariably someone is going to shout they want to hear Curtis Lowe about five times before the night is over.
Perspective.
My point is I don't understand why so many players are offended at the thought of being told what brand to play if they want to play for a major artist. I'm looking at it solely from my personal perspective, which is unknown rookie. I've been playing bass for more than 25 years, and if I had been given the opportunity to audition and play for a major act, I would joyfully play whatever brand they preferred. I would even play the songs they wanted to do, they way they asked me to play them
I think the general advice for someone with no prior connections coming to Nashville to audition is valid. Whether it's fair or biased is beside the point. If what I'm hearing from working bassists in Nashville that their advice is to bring a four stringer, I would tend to listen to that advice. I haven't played my '66 Fender Precision for 8 years now, I've moved on to Dingwalls and Ritter 5 string basses, but I don't play in Nashville. I play in a cover band for MY enjoyment, and select my equipment based on what I want to hear.
If I were ever to be called for an audition with a big name working artist, you better believe in addition to my Dingwall Z3 and Ritter Roya I'll have that old faithful '66 P with me. My name is Jeff Roller, no one knows who that is. If my name were Leland Sklar, the person calling me in for an audition already knows what I'm bringing.
Again, it's not about arguing whether it's fair or not, lots of things in life aren't fair. If you want to play a 17 string bass through a gorilla amp, that's your choice. Build a band around that, sell a gazillion records. I for one appreciate the perspective and advice from working musicians on what it takes to break in and play for a living. It lets me peek inside their world for a moment. Meanwhile, I go back to reality this weekend playing covers in a dive bar, where no one really cares how much my bass cost me or how long I've worked to perfect my tone, invariably someone is going to shout they want to hear Curtis Lowe about five times before the night is over.
Perspective.
Very well said.
If I got a job at a bank and was told that I had to wear a suit and tie to work everyday I would show up with a suit and tie. I wouldn't show up in a t-shirt and jeans telling the bank president how narrow-minded he is for thinking everyone has to wear a suit.
If you don't like it, work somewhere else. 
A gig is a job, after all.
I too enjoy hearing the stories and tips from the working pros in Nashville. Insightful stuff.
Excellent rant, great point.
I've been in many studios trying to please many engineers and producers. They have one primary objective come hell or high water: Get the best track they possibly can. And it starts with the source. If they tell you what they want and you can deliver, they're happy. They couldn't care less if you're playing a duck with a tennis racket up its butt, if it tracks well and the performance is airtight, they're happy.
That being said, more than once I have seen some poor bass player who brought the "wrong" equipment to the studio, and I have seen engineers and producers pull a certain bass off the studio wall (usually a vintage P-Bass or something equally iconic, predictable, and track-friendly), hand it to the player, and state, "You'll be playing this one today."
Pitch a fit, and you'll be relegated to the dump sessions, where dump tracks are acceptable.
If you can't get the tone they want, good engineers and producers will not record or use that tone. They will ask you to come back more appropriately armed or give you a studio bass to play.
And I've yet to meet an engineer or producer who was a bonafide gear snob and would out-of-hand immediately dismiss a piece of gear based on brand/model alone without even taking a minute to hear it. I've recorded all over, not so much in Nashville, a brief stint at Belmont, but I'm having a hard time imagining a good engineer or producer being a gear snob. These guys are smart and experienced enough to know that happy accidents happen in the studio all the time.
When I record I take several basses along, but every engineer and producer has picked my '51 P-bass as the one they want me to use. And I use what they tell me to, because in this situation I work for them. Playing live I can use my Conklin 7-string if I want, but when I'm working for somebody I let them make the call. Rollerberg2000 is right on the money with how it all works.
Very much so. My daughter just got back from Manhatten/NYC not too long ago and reported back that everyone had a Selmer Mark VI and anything else was considered a "toy." Note that Charlie Parker would have played a toy most if not all of the time by these standards. Nevertheless, they do exist and to go against them is something like spitting into the wind.
+1...
Very well said.
If I got a job at a bank and was told that I had to wear a suit and tie to work everyday I would show up with a suit and tie. I wouldn't show up in a t-shirt and jeans telling the bank president how narrow-minded he is for thinking everyone has to wear a suit.
A gig is a job, after all.
I too enjoy hearing the stories and tips from the working pros in Nashville. Insightful stuff.
Yeah, my kids tend to exaggerate too.
So if someone like Tom Scott or David Sanborn walked into a Manhattan studio with something other than a Selmer Mark VI, tracked an incredible solo both sonically and technically, made the engineer and producer happy, he'd get laughed at?
I'm laughing a little at that notion myself right now.
Overt gear snobbery is for rank amatures. No engineer, producer, or musician of note that I know has ever engaged in such childishness.
Now, once a piece of gear has proven itself inadequate, then suggestions for more reliable alternates becomes appropriate. But telling a seasoned pro his gear is "wrong" based on brand/model alone? Ridiculous.
I use five strings in my Americana/alt-country band, EBMM Sterling HH and Stingray Hp fretless, both strung with D'Addario Halfrounds. I had up until very recently been using steel roundwounds on the Sterling, just loving the snarl and snap, but it's really too aggressive for our style and overall mix (I became aware of this after hearing a recording made by a fan on one of those hand-held digital recorders... the mids and highs were just too in-your-face). The Halfrounds have a very strong fundamental, but you can crank the high and mid eq on the bass to get more roar when needed.
We play small venues for the most part, and my Markbass CMD 121P combo works just fine. It's very warm sounding for a SS amp, and I get it sounding even nicer with a Tech21 VT Bass and a Durham Sex Drive (possibly the single best-sounding pedal for bass I've ever owned), plus EBS MultiComp for compression. If I need to tap all 500w of the combo for a larger venue, I'll add a borrowed 8ohm cab! One day I'll buy a 1x15 cab of my very own....
BTW, FWIW, YMMV: I've been playing five string basses since they first became available outside of the boutique market (early 80's), and while I have nothing personal or ideological against Fender, I have to say that I have never in all of those years played a Fender 5 with a B string that was worth a damb. I was so excited when the passive 5-string P was announced, because I thought that would really be a useful tool for the kind of music I play... but the B string on that bass is absolutely useless.
We play small venues for the most part, and my Markbass CMD 121P combo works just fine. It's very warm sounding for a SS amp, and I get it sounding even nicer with a Tech21 VT Bass and a Durham Sex Drive (possibly the single best-sounding pedal for bass I've ever owned), plus EBS MultiComp for compression. If I need to tap all 500w of the combo for a larger venue, I'll add a borrowed 8ohm cab! One day I'll buy a 1x15 cab of my very own....
BTW, FWIW, YMMV: I've been playing five string basses since they first became available outside of the boutique market (early 80's), and while I have nothing personal or ideological against Fender, I have to say that I have never in all of those years played a Fender 5 with a B string that was worth a damb. I was so excited when the passive 5-string P was announced, because I thought that would really be a useful tool for the kind of music I play... but the B string on that bass is absolutely useless.
I have to disagree with the P5 having a useless B string. After adjusting the pickup a bit it is as loud and has that P bass character like the other 4 strings. I admit that
I like the B better on my Roscoe Beck V since I can get a very nice growl out of it, but saying the B string is useless on the P5 must come from someone who just doesn't like a P bass tone.
I like the B better on my Roscoe Beck V since I can get a very nice growl out of it, but saying the B string is useless on the P5 must come from someone who just doesn't like a P bass tone.
Tom Scott and David Sanborn can play what they want - but they probably endured some similar treatment before anyone knew who they were. But they are "seasoned pros", as you say.
Dude-from-nowhere who wants to make it big is generally not a seasoned pro, no matter how great a player he/she might be. That's me... been playing for almost 25 years, had some local success, been on a few CD's of various genres, but by anyone's standard of "seasoned pro", I'm not one.
I've got a friend in Seattle who IS a seasoned pro. He has worked with one producer famous for a lot of the Seattle alternative bands that refuses to allow anything other than a real '62P. It happens.
Not saying it's right or wrong - just that it has and will happen.
