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Country Sound - Need Help!

I'm struggling trying to nail the tone found in modern country, and it is whoopin' me. I've played either in theater pit or rock for the most part, and am just plain lost trying to get a good start on finding that huge sound.

Rig advice, eq, ?????

Help!
 
Any particular artist? I play mainly traditional country with some new country like Toby Keith, some 50s rock, some classic rock in the country vein like CCR and the Eagles. The normal country gig.

I use a P bass, with flats (LaBella 760FL), tone control rolled off almost all the way, into an iAMP500 set flat, into one or two wizzys.

Actually not too much different from my classic rock tone. For rock I just use a brighter tone. Chromes rather than LaBella. The tone control usually removed for more brightness. Hotter pickups.
 
The modern Country tone seems to be a strong signal between 40hz-300hz with little to no treble - at least on the studio recordings. Most of the bass lines are simple and slow with lots of space to fill. So a somewhat thick/heavy boom tone is needed. You don't need to go hog wild, nearly any amp can do that Country tone. I have seen the SVT CL and the 810e used with several Country bands. I would not say country goes to one kind of amp.
 
Gearhead17 said:
The modern Country tone seems to be a strong signal between 40hz-300hz with little to no treble - at least on the studio recordings. Most of the bass lines are simple and slow with lots of space to fill. So a somewhat thick/heavy boom tone is needed. You don't need to go hog wild, nearly any amp can do that Country tone. I have seen the SVT CL and the 810e used with several Country bands. I would not say country goes to one kind of amp.


I couldn't disagree more. Today's MODERN tones are not boomy at all. THick, deep and tight? Yes. Boomy and un articulate? NOT AT ALL. Also, the bass lines of the last 5 - 10 years are less simple and more rhythmic and have a jazz quality to them. Tasteful yet filling is how I would describe them.

I play and record modern country. There are a good handful of different tones in modern country these days. Many of the same session guys do the majority of the work in Nashville (just a handful of them). Each has their own signature style and tone. The three main cats that come tp mind are Mike Brignardello, Michael Rhodes and Glenn Worf. All three have and use Sadowsky's in the studio (not to say they don't have or use other basses).

Live gear wise I see far more Jazz basses these days than I do MusicMan's or Laklands though they are still prevalant.

Live Rigs? Mostly Eden and Aguilar. More Ampegs lately too. HOWEVER, 99.9% of all of them are running in-ears. So, the rig really gets taken out of the equation.

I am producing a country artist right now and the tone I got in the studio was from a Sadowsky PJ5 split into a Avalon U5 DI (for the crystal clear articulation and true tone of my Sadowsky's) and a SansAmp (for the tubier girth and slight grit). Nearly every track is mixed with the U5 at about 65% - 70% and the SansAmp at about 30% - 35%. JUst a killer solid, deep, punchy tone that sits perfectly in the mix.

Live I will be using in-ears a good chunk of the time. When I am not, I will be running the Sadowsky PJ5's through an Aguilar DB659 preamp and a couple Accugroove cabinets.

Hope this helps. If you need anything else just drop me a PM.
 
Thank you all for the help!

The sound I'm after is the full articulate tone found in modern country towards the rockier end of the spectrum. I agree with Mike, bass lines in country have gotten more athletic in the last five years.

Looks like the keys are a Jazz + Eden or Aguilar for a live rig.

I'm going to give the clean and dirty preamp a try this afternoon - In my case it'll be a True Voice and a Sans Amp.

Thanks again for getting me pointed in the right direction.
 
Something else to consider, getting those tones while not all that difficult have a lot to do with the environment you're in.

A lot of those tones take up a lot of sonic space and you need guitar players that can play clean and sparse in a band that has a lot of control. Those tones for the most part will give you trouble if you're surrounded by Marshalls and Les Pauls.

Another thing, a lot of it is just the sound of money being spent. By the player, the studio, sound company or all of them. I've never really been able to get top tier tone without top tier equipment. Lord knows I've tried.
 
bikertrash82 said:
Something else to consider, getting those tones while not all that difficult have a lot to do with the environment you're in.

A lot of those tones take up a lot of sonic space and you need guitar players that can play clean and sparse in a band that has a lot of control. Those tones for the most part will give you trouble if you're surrounded by Marshalls and Les Pauls.

Another thing, a lot of it is just the sound of money being spent. By the player, the studio, sound company or all of them. I've never really been able to get top tier tone without top tier equipment. Lord knows I've tried.

I really appreciate the stark reality here.

It looks like as we rehearse, I'm going to have to find a way to help the band find the sound we have in our heads. This isn't going to be easy.

Thank you.
 
Interceptor said:
I'm struggling trying to nail the tone found in modern country, and it is whoopin' me. I've played either in theater pit or rock for the most part, and am just plain lost trying to get a good start on finding that huge sound.

Rig advice, eq, ?????

Help!

Been playing country for the last 20 years (since I was 16). My rigs have been:
P-bass (PJ) through:
1. Peavey MarkIV - 215 cab
2. Hartke 3500 - 410 cab
3. Alembic F-1X/Crest- Eden 210XLT (and JBL 115)

Since 1999 - Lakland 55-94 through:
1. #3 above
2. Alembic F-1X/QSC - EA CXL112
3. iAMP - EA CXL112 x 2 / NL210 (mix & match cabs)
4. Aguilar DB750 - Berg N610
5. Demeter HBP-1 - Shure IEM

My 55-94 always sounded a little too "mellow" to me so I shipped it to Lakland a couple weeks ago to have the new pups/pre. The UPS site tells me I'll have it back tomorrow! :hyper:

I will use it on a show in a couple weeks with a real country band (new and old), along with the DB/NV rig. Should be what I've been looking for.... clear, punchy, tight, defined, somewhat deep. I almost bought a couple of tube heads (SVT-II, Mesa 400), and wouldn't hesitate using them in a country band either.

Funny, those are the same rigs I used for my rock gigs. :eyebrow: All this to say country is not necessarily what it used to be.

R
 
BigMikeW said:
...There are a good handful of different tones in modern country these days. Many of the same session guys do the majority of the work in Nashville (just a handful of them). Each has their own signature style and tone. The three main cats that come tp mind are Mike Brignardello, Michael Rhodes and Glenn Worf. All three have and use Sadowsky's in the studio (not to say they don't have or use other basses)...
+1
One might also check out Kevin Grantt with Brad Paisley on
the Time Well Wasted CD--I hear great tone and inventive driving bass playing :bassist: :bassist: :bassist:
 
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Saw her playing with Vince Gill and Alison Kraus. It's running on CMT I think it's called Collections. Check out her rig on her site. Old Silvertone and a Traynor YBA-1. I've seen Michael Rhodes use a Trace Elliott on an SWR Henry 8x8 backing Amy Grant and Vince Gill. He has endorsed EA. I know Nashville musicians are about great sound. Nora Jones' bassist on the "Handsome Band" DVD uses the house Ampeg B-15 and a Walter Woods head on a Berg 1x12 for his upright. Unless you go way out and get a Vintage Marshall stack with a Jazz Bass with Rotosounds and crank it you should be in the ball park if you play what you hear.
Ultimately it's in your fingers.
________________________

Save the cheerleader, save the world
 
For a little more than a year now, I have been the house bassist at Buck Owens’ Crystal Palace in Bakersfield CA, and I have had the great fortune of playing with, and hearing a lot of top notch country artists (as well as getting some very handy advice from Buck himself before his passing). I came into this gig from a jazz background and had very, very little experience at playing country (but now greatly enjoy it…it is a LOT trickier than just root/fives on the downbeats…). I have had a lot to learn about playing in this style, and along the way have learned a lot.

The upper echelon Nashville studio players (Michael Rhodes, Glenn Worf, Mike Brigandello, David Hungate, Mike Chapman, Dave Pomeroy) all have really top notch studio racks for tracking (a lot of LA2As, Neve, TubeTech….vintage Pultec eqs….all very expensive). These are used for recording, not live gigs. The reason behind this is Nashville has a history or working fast. They don’t spend three weeks working on a snare sound…and bassist usually have about ten min working with the engineer, to get “the sound”. Often tracks are played down live, with a couple of passes being made, and any changes or alterations discussed between takes. Those racks allow the bassist to send a very good +4dB signal direct to tape....and a "quick and good tone" which engineers can deal with without spending hours tweaking....

Live is a different story. Those guys usually do not take to the road with an artist (tho it does, on special occasions happen). And road bands keep things lean, often relying on a rented backline for the bass. Instruments do matter…but vary. Popular basses include, of course, Sadowsky, James Tyler, Lakland, vintage (or vintage re-issue) Fender Js and some old Gibson Les Paul Sigs. Lakland HBs are showing up more and more.

There is a definite trend back to flat wound strings…which is an important part of that country bass tone.
And there is a trend towards passive pickups (albeit aided with some outboard preamp: Aguillar and Tri-Logic preamps are the units of choice. The Xotic RC Boost pedal is seen quite a bit as it is a transparent boost which does not detract from the sound of passive pickups.) Compressors are used quite a bit to keep the bass in check….and I see a few Aphex Punch Factory’s, if only because they are quite transparent and easily replaced should they fail or become broken. Demeter Compulators are also quite popular.

Tube DI, for bass, is usually the call--either Demeter Tube Direct or Aguillar, and the Avalon U5 is everywhere!

As I said, bass maps are often rented. EA, Eden, Ampeg….all get the call. The use of outboard preamps makes the amp not as “essential” as one might think.

The real magic is in finding tone that fits. Think not so much as something to cut through, as in a rock gig, but rather a tone which fits between the guitars (which can range from chunky to twangy) and the kick drum. It cannot be so middy that it competes with guitars (and often there are bari gtr parts) nor can it be so deep that it masks the kick. The bottom is kept quite tight---not boomy. The lower mids are emphasized as are the upper mids for just a little pressence and subtle bite (and often a tube DI is placed before the amp to get a little drive on the tone---listen to some of the bass tones, for instance in Kenny Chesney’s CDs--Larry Paxton and Michael Rhodes--…round, full but a little fury as well). Treble, which equaltes to hiss, string and finger noise, is not emphasized.

And most important…it is all about note selection and note duration (coming from jazz and funk, it was difficult for me to let those quarter and eighth notes ring for their entire length). Placement and feel of the beat is likewise of major importance---often a bass part will sit slightly behind the beat for a verse and move up on top of the beat for a chorus (or vice versa) without speeding up or slowing down. Dotted notes are often held to varying lengths to highlight a vocal. Parts are not “notey” and extended harmonies are usually shunned, but 3rds and 7ths are used quite a bit to turnaround phrases based on the r/5 movement. The music may be simple, but it is most certainly NOT easy. Your tone should be round and full enough to allow for these distinct “stylistic” accents…and it should not get in the way. If your bass tone “stands out” it needs to be dialed back. It needs to sit in the mix. Every now and then there is a few notes, a measure maybe…or a small fill, where the other instruments leave enough space for the bassist to put his/ her signature in there. Your tone, while sitting back in the track for the rest of the tune, will stand out here because the other players are making room for it. Likewise, your tone, throughout a song or set, must be “anonymous” enough to let the other instruments (and most of all the vocalist) stand out. That is one of the true arts of country music: how each player subtly sculpts out their own sonic space to leave room for others. This allows for sonic clarity, and makes rather simple parts become something entirely complex and sophisticated as they are made part of the whole.

Hope that helps

Max
 
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Max,

A heartfelt thank you, this type of advice is priceless.

I experimented over the weekend with the technique Mike presented (clean + dirty) and had very good results into into ProTools. I used a True Voice tube DI together with a SansAmp, with about two thirds of the signal the TV, one third SansAmp. I'm pretty happy with the results - it is good enough for where the project I'm dealing with is at.

I've got some work to do on the live rig, but getting closer.

The real work is just beginning; developing the subtle refinements in my playing.
 
Huh? Wha? :confused:















Of course, it's these digits:

4233876_21bb2bd80d_m.jpg


:D

Seriously, I've played a lot of country over the last 30+ years, and I'd second what several folks have said both about the gear and the overall approach to the style. Great stuff, and thanks! :-)

But beyond (or before) the equipment, as cliched as it sounds, it really is true that "tone is in the fingers." (Unless you use a lot of pedals, in which case tone is in the feet... ) ;-) CS
 

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