Cover band questions.

[Joe Nerve]

Thanks again for all the info people! There is a LOT of good stuff in here, and it just keeps coming!

Now, a question...
I know it probably depends on what genre you're personally going for, but can anyone suggest simple(ish) songs that they first learned to sing & play? Surely there must be a few tunes that helped you bust through the "playing while singing" barrier.

I get the whole practice, practice, practice concept, but surely some of you guys have a "baby steps" song for me to try to sing & play?

Thanks!

That depends a lot on your singing range. I'd suggest taking ANY song that you already know the lyrics to and can sing, where the bass isn't overly complex. I'd also suggest practicing phrases to a metronome, at a ridiculously slow speed if you're struggling at all. After a while, it become 2nd nature. I'm not good at singing and playing and hate doing it, but found I could do "the impossible," with patience and going super slowly. I literally had to practice parts of this a syllable at a time, and did it until muscle memory took over. It took, as you said, practice, practice, practice. And patience, too.

 

[51PRI]

...can anyone suggest simple(ish) songs that they first learned to sing & play? Surely there must be a few tunes that helped you bust through the "playing while singing" barrier....

Try "Brown Eyed Girl"....seriously.

 

[Reedt2000]

I find my hands have to be on auto pilot to sing effectively so I suggest starting with things you know how to play really well. So well you can devote some of your thought process to singing.

 

[Reedt2000]

That depends a lot on your singing range. I'd suggest taking ANY song that you already know the lyrics to and can sing, where the bass isn't overly complex. I'd also suggest practicing phrases to a metronome, at a ridiculously slow speed if you're struggling at all. After a while, it become 2nd nature. I'm not good at singing and playing and hate doing it, but found I could do "the impossible," with patience and going super slowly. I literally had to practice parts of this a syllable at a time, and did it until muscle memory took over. It took, as you said, practice, practice, practice. And patience, too.

Nicely done sir

I've always dug that heavy & funky fusion and this is a cool example for sure

 

[Jeff Hughes]

My band has gone through more drummers than Spinal Tap. So I have a lot of experience playing with sub drummers, and here is what I found makes a player valuable:

-ability to be rock solid as a player
-ability to flex a little and open things up when the moment strikes
-familiarity with a wide breadth of styles and songs while not necessarily having to be an expert in any style or to know every song
-confidence while playing: neither too loud or too reserved
-small physical footprint (gear is not too huge, setup and tear down don’t get in the way)
-small emotional footprint (avoid bringing everyone down, complaining, deprecating yourself, or arguing pointless musical positions and/or hypotheticals)
-be able to let things go

 

[hrodbert696]

Thanks again for all the info people! There is a LOT of good stuff in here, and it just keeps coming!

Now, a question...
I know it probably depends on what genre you're personally going for, but can anyone suggest simple(ish) songs that they first learned to sing & play? Surely there must be a few tunes that helped you bust through the "playing while singing" barrier.

I get the whole practice, practice, practice concept, but surely some of you guys have a "baby steps" song for me to try to sing & play?

Thanks!

Like @Joe Nerve said, it depends on your range - is there a popular song you like to sing along to when it comes on the radio/whatever? Start with that. If it's comfortable for your vocal range, do that. Also start listening to harmonies in songs and see how you can pick out those. If you're joining an established band, they probably already have a good lead vocalist, what they'll really want is a backup singer and, at most, someone who can change things up by singing lead once per night or maybe per set.

The tunes that I tend to take lead on in cover band settings (not counting my now-defunct alt/indie cover band that I did 2/3 of the leads on) are Love Me Two Times (Doors), Take Me to the River (Talking Heads), and the male (Fred) part in Love Shack (B-52s) - that last one isn't really singing, it's more what theater people used to call "talking on pitch." They all have pretty simple, repetitive bass parts that are easy to sing over.

You've had plenty of sound advice, so I won't pile on with generalities, but I'll add a couple of things. One is a bit of wisdom someone on TB quoted a while back: "The sad fact is that a good bassist can always find a band, but the really good bands don't usually need a bassist." It would be great to find an established band that happens to be looking for a bassist like you, but there IS a food chain to local bands and the acts at the top wont necessarily have an opening right now. If you do know one, awesome.

But if your experience is like mine, you'll probably be spending some time trying out with craigslist bands that may play a gig or three and then fizzle or whatever. I would say, that's OK - play with them anyway. Make contacts, cultivate the best people (most serious, good at getting gigs, play well) as ongoing connections, and don't be shy about moving up the food chain. You don't have be a jerk about that last bit, don't burn any bridges, but don't turn down good opportunities.

Where I've wound up, that I'm very happy with, is not so much "being in a band" as being part of a little network of musicians that always have various projects going on with different mix-and-match of people. For instance: a few years ago I joined a rockabilly startup. We played one gig and then the guitarist had a meltdown and I quit, not worth his drama. But the singer was great, and he asked me to sub in a Blues Bros. tribute he's in when the regular bassist couldn't make it.

Later on another group I was playing with had a singer quit and I asked him if he wanted to join, which he did, and then it turned out that the Blues Bros. tribute really needed a new core rhythm section, so we all learned that repertoire and I became the first-call bassist for that...

The group I asked him to sing for was Granite State Rhythm section, which was started by a drummer who had played with me in Six Cowards for a while, and we had also done some originals... he had fired GSR's original singer, who then went on to form a hard rock bar band with GSR's guitarist and a different drummer, and when THEIR original bassist left they invited me to join, so I wound up in Mugshot Monday... and so on and so on. You get the idea - form relationships, build a network, and different projects with gigging opportunities start to arise naturally.

The last thing would be repertoire. Go on auditions and you'll see what people are playing, all the regular stuff will start cropping up, Mustang Sally and Summer of 69 and Sweet Home Alabama, Keep Your Hands to Yourself, all that stuff. Apart from that, google the DJ's lists of the 200 top requested songs last year and go through it for anything that could actually be played by a band (a lot will be electro/pop/hip hop stuff that couldn't be, of course). Those kinds of things are usually a good bet to show up in cover band set lists.

 

[LBS-bass]

Learning to sing and play for me was just a matter of practicing one thing over and over until the synapses in my brain snapped into place and then I was able to do it. I was learning a song that had a syncopated backing vocal over a straight quarter note swing rhythm and the song was fast. I worked it and worked it until something just happened in my brain and then I could do it.

It's much like learning to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time. There's a neural pathway that needs to be activated to make those motions more independent of each other. Doing it over and over is the key. Singing and playing is no different.

I still have to practice the things that I sing and play, and it's easier if I get the bass parts down so that I don't have to think about them. But just pick any song you know the bass part to that's a little bit challenging for you to sing and play, and do it until you find it falling into place. It'll always be easier from that point on.

 

[Biggbass]

I've played in a classic rock cover band with the same guys for many years. We started out just getting together to play, then one day one of the guys had a gig opportunity and we took it.
At that gig, we had 30 min of stage time and managed to pull off 7 songs. As things turned out, there was a club owner back stage who wanted to hire us to play his venue. But we'd only worked up 8 songs so we booked the venue 90 days out and spent those 3 months working up 3 sets. And it took off from there.

Our approach has always been to choose songs that we like and that we can play well and Sing well. We started out playing Derek & The Dominoes tunes, along with other classic Clapton material, then morphed into a Six Degrees of Clapton band. As time passed, and more gigs came our way, we started adding more dance friendly songs. But all the while keeping to our original strategy of the songs being songs we liked and could sing well.

With Covid somewhat behind us now, we've started rehearsing again and have some fall gigs lined up. At last rehearsal we worked up Running on Empty and Doctor My Eyes, two songs I've always liked a lot. And we have the instrumentation and vocals to pull them off well.

So my advice would be to choose material that you love to listen to and enjoy playing. That will keep it fun. And stick to songs that you can sing well. It always comes down to the quality of the vocals. And try to keep it listener and dance friendly...that will get you gigs.

 

[51PRI]

Playing bass impressively and singing impressively at the same time isn't easy. It takes work. This lady has obviously put in the work.

 

[Bonafide]

The term 'cover band' covers alot of ground, with varying levels of skill and need. That said, 'professional level cover bands' (Professional wedding bands, dance bands, corporate bands etc) pay very well and expect you to play the songs as written (or very close to it). The musicians are usually well versed and experienced. And, very few of these bands have openings as most have excellent subs. Either way, if the opportunity arises, you have to genuinely be able to play the bass lines. I don't know what your skill set is but on the funk, disco, dance side of things, many of those are genuinely advanced level basslines and your chops and technique need to be on point. Starting to build your 200 song repertoire is a pragmatic way to do both. Even as an artist, learning covers does you more good not. Best of luck on the new venture.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I get the whole practice, practice, practice concept, but surely some of you guys have a "baby steps" song for me to try to sing & play?

I would if I sang.

Singing is most definitely a plus and will help you, especially in highly competitive locations. Highly recommended if you can do it.

However, I've never sung beyond football vocals (hey! ho! hut! hut!) for multiple decades and have never not gotten offered a gig I've checked out in person. Most of my introductions have been referrals, the rest were with players where we had a passing familiarity with each other. I haven't gone to a true open, "cold" audition since high school stage band. I do engage the audience with talk between songs if the leads are switching instruments, etc...

 

[Amano]

Usually I recommend a list of questions to ask before you audition, but since you've never played in a cover band, I'd go on as many auditions as possible. Also, since you aren't sure what genre you are interested in, I'd just go on whatever is available. As it becomes more clear what you are looking for, you should start screening, but initially, it's probably beneficial to see the good, the bad and the ugly.

To make yourself appealing, just show up on time, prepared, with professional equipment in good repair, and don't be a jerk. That alone would put you in the top 10% (or higher) of candidates. I auditioned bass players for a Rockabilly band, gave them 10 songs, pick any five, mostly twelve bar progressions. Only one or two people showed up knowing 5 songs. Some of them couldn't even follow a simple I, IV, V.

I got my current guitar gig because I showed up on time, prepared, knew all the songs they asked me to learn (10), didn't complain about transposing keys, didn't play too loud, didn't step on the singer's toes, listened to the rest of the band and fit my parts in to what was already there. It's really simple, but so few people have the discipline to do it. I get gigs over better players because I'm a solution, not a problem; I'm one less thing they have to worry about.

^ This 100%.

 

[51PRI]

...Go on auditions and you'll see what people are playing...google the DJ's lists of the 200 top requested songs last year and go through it for anything that could actually be played by a band (a lot will be electro/pop/hip hop stuff that couldn't be, of course)....

I think its a cop-out (not by you but just in general that "electro/pop/hip hop stuff" can't be covered. It can be! Bands are just (1) too lazy to learn the parts, and/or (2) don't like the music and don't want to play it to begin with, which is why we have zillions of cover bands playing Wagon Wheel and Sweet Caroline and the like.

I think a band doing GOOD cover version of current Top 40 would KILL!

 

[tshapiro]

I find it interesting that you say treat it like a job but then don't ask about money. It might not be the first thing I bring up but I damn sure want to know if the band is financially worth my time before I commit. Same as any job.

Having done this for 30 years, the pattern is:
How much does it pay?
Can I get an advance?
Can I get a loan?
Can I get a ride?
Can you bring an instrument for me?

Most gigging bands are paying the going rate: $100/man for bar gigs, $200-300 for private. If they're not they're usually not in business for very long.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think its a cop-out (not by you but just in general that "electro/pop/hip hop stuff" can't be covered. It can be! Bands are just (1) too lazy to learn the parts, and/or (2) don't like the music and don't want to play it to begin with, which is why we have zillions of cover bands playing Wagon Wheel and Sweet Caroline and the like.

I think a band doing GOOD cover version of current Top 40 would KILL!

IMO much of it is keyboard heavy and keys players are hard to find. You can do it with backing tracks if someone is willing to create them.

 

[FatherTrucker]

Having done this for 30 years, the pattern is:
How much does it pay?
Can I get an advance?
Can I get a loan?
Can I get a ride?
Can you bring an instrument for me?

Most gigging bands are paying the going rate: $100/man for bar gigs, $200-300 for private. If they're not they're usually not in business for very long.

There are lots of bands around me that play fairly regularly that don't get those kinds of amounts for lots of reasons. I count on the extra money I make in the band I play in to make ends meet. I'm not about to waste my time onboarding with a new band only to be handed $50 after the first gig and told "oh yeah, that's the usual." If you are having those kinds of issues with musicians I would suggest a stricter vetting process because most people above and beyond the playing for fun crowd are going to want to know this.

 

[tshapiro]

There are lots of bands around me that play fairly regularly that don't get those kinds of amounts for lots of reasons. I count on the extra money I make in the band I play in to make ends meet. I'm not about to waste my time onboarding with a new band only to be handed $50 after the first gig and told "oh yeah, that's the usual." If you are having those kinds of issues with musicians I would suggest a stricter vetting process because most people above and beyond the playing for fun crowd are going to want to know this.

Actually, I don't have those issues. And, according to Gigmasters, I've had the top booking band in my city for the last 15 years. Our policy is we split the money equally. If you're not finding the money is meeting your expectations find another band. But, that never happens. We have a queue of people looking to play with us.
Www.last2leave.com
Www.last2leavelive.com

 

[hrodbert696]

I think its a cop-out (not by you but just in general that "electro/pop/hip hop stuff" can't be covered. It can be! Bands are just (1) too lazy to learn the parts, and/or (2) don't like the music and don't want to play it to begin with, which is why we have zillions of cover bands playing Wagon Wheel and Sweet Caroline and the like.

I think a band doing GOOD cover version of current Top 40 would KILL!

I've played Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga and other pop acts, and a great deal of that works perfectly well in a cover band. But it isn't a cop-out to say other forms of pop don't. Granted it wasn't a top 40 hit, but here's an example of what I mean:


The artist is a friend of mine and at one point she was back in the state and talking about getting some musicians together to play a live gig. I offered the guys I was playing with to back her. Didn't work out, but the question was how a bass/drum/guitar combo would perform this. Yes, there's a melody and a chord progression, you COULD figure out a way to play it. But with standard rock band instrumentation, any straightforward cover would not work. It isn't that there are parts we'd be too lazy to learn or that we didn't like it; it's that translating it to our instruments would require a whole lot of arrangement to be at all worth listening to, and the result, good or not, would not resemble the original recording at all.

 

[tshapiro]

I've played Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga and other pop acts, and a great deal of that works perfectly well in a cover band. But it isn't a cop-out to say other forms of pop don't. Granted it wasn't a top 40 hit, but here's an example of what I mean:


The artist is a friend of mine and at one point she was back in the state and talking about getting some musicians together to play a live gig. I offered the guys I was playing with to back her. Didn't work out, but the question was how a bass/drum/guitar combo would perform this. Yes, there's a melody and a chord progression, you COULD figure out a way to play it. But with standard rock band instrumentation, any straightforward cover would not work. It isn't that there are parts we'd be too lazy to learn or that we didn't like it; it's that translating it to our instruments would require a whole lot of arrangement to be at all worth listening to, and the result, good or not, would not resemble the original recording at all.

After I read your post I was totally on board with you, but then I listened to the song. I don't know, with a fat bass and distorted guitar with spacey effects I'd probably take on that song. Drummer would really need to know those snare fills. Not saying you're right or wrong, I don't think there is one. Sonically it might have a different texture, but, I'm OK when bands do that.

 

[hrodbert696]

After I read your post I was totally on board with you, but then I listened to the song. I don't know, with a fat bass and distorted guitar with spacey effects I'd probably take on that song. Drummer would really need to know those snare fills. Not saying you're right or wrong, I don't think there is one. Sonically it might have a different texture, but, I'm OK when bands do that.

Maybe. It's a hella lot of hanging whole notes, and I think the original works because there's a lot of studio texturing layered into it, that would be tough to substitute for live. It would be a challenge to get it to go over. I'd be up for trying it just because it IS a friend's song, but choosing set list for a cover band otherwise, I'd focus efforts on other kinds of songs.

So I took a look at the DJ top 200 requests list and in the top 10 of them was Usher's "Yeah," the kind of song I meant with the post originally - just not really meant to be played by your typical cover band.


Here's a video of how a traditional-instrument band covers it:


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