I've never known of a venue in my area paying this, unless it's included with the jukebox.
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Cover Band Rules
- Thread starter MrBruce
- Start date
Seems to be counterproductive. Take the free exposure before people quit talking about the Eagles.
No need for good luck, we've been at it for years. Just need the damn covid gone, and the venues to survive (but that's another matter).
It takes time, effort... and of course some decent material, but it's doable. "People just want to hear what they know" is an oversimplification. Yes, play the hits and you're safe. But play something danceable and uplifting, and it'll work too. Not all of it, but keep writing stuff, see what works, and it'll be ok: people will have a good time, dance, get thirsty, drink lots of beer... band gets paid, bar makes money, people return to the bar next weekend... everybody happy
To be clear: nothing against playing covers, I do that too and love it. I just don't like excuses
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In a nutshell.
It's entertainment. And you can entertain very successfully playing your own material, as long as you choose that material with that objective: entertainment.
I suppose it varies a lot with genre. Playing funk, ska, reggae, it's relatively easy. If you want to play classic rock, then it'll be a lot harder to succeed with your own material, but not doing something you'd like just because it's hard is not going to get you anywhere.
All the bands we like turned to originals at some point, but I bet they all played covers for years before that.
How do you know, would they tell you if they do?
did you ask them if they pay?
I haven't ever asked, but I'm aware that two of my 'regular' venues do pay (it came out in conversation).
I'm sure a lot of places don't pay, but I'd imagine any place that is prominent in the live music scene is paying, as they'll be too much of an easy target otherwise.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
And In sure we don't know everything you do for your job/profession. It's an expense, like paying rent or worker's comp. If you own a business, you are expected to know.
You want him to take the "free exposure". Fine, next time your band has a gig, tell the owner you don't want to get paid, because YOU want the free exposure. Or just tell your boss you don't want a paycheck, because the "exposure" of working for them is reward enough.
This, in a nutshell, is the problem. People don't want to pay for music, and musicians can no longer make music for a career. If you didn't want to pay a restaurant owner, but expected them to cook for you "for the free exposure", there wouldn't be many restaurants.
Make sense now?
I feel this was a rather snarky response.
Compared to the overall population of musicians in this world, just how many do you think are capable of writing their own music? By your logic, 99% of the venues that want to provide live music would be S$&# out luck. Only writers of music would be able to perform at places like hole in the wall venues. Not much chance of that happening all around the country.
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Yeah, my point, which prompted the response you're quoting, was that live music, at least at LOCAL levels, is and always has been about providing folks with an entertainment outlet, which means MOSTLY cover songs that they know, bonus points if they happen to be danceable, depending on on the venue.
A strictly all originals scene is fine, and artistically noble, but in the real world of live music, it is the outlier, the exception, and will never draw crowds that ring a local venue's cash register.
And that's not even addressing the concept of the quality of songwriting. A whole nuther topic...
BMI has a spotty and pretty unfair business practice as far as I am concerned. My wife had a dance studio for many years. Early on, she was contacted by BMI about fees for the music she was using to teach classes.
She told them to send her a list of songs/artists that they represented and she would indicate which songs she was using each year. They said it didn't work that way. She would have to tell them how many students she had each year and the fees would be based on that. She told them it was none of their business how many students she had. Just send her their song lists.
She never heard back from them.
She told them to send her a list of songs/artists that they represented and she would indicate which songs she was using each year. They said it didn't work that way. She would have to tell them how many students she had each year and the fees would be based on that. She told them it was none of their business how many students she had. Just send her their song lists.
She never heard back from them.
Check it out, I said "I've never know of"
Some might pay it and some might not, but I know of 2 venue owners who told me that they do not pay.
Here's a hint....if someone covers an Eagles on YouTube all the money earned from that video will go to Don Henley and the Eagles. They can choose to either have the video taken down or leave it up and collect the money. There is no going back to the days of people forking over money for recordings of music unless its via streaming service. Eventually people will just quit thinking about the bands like the Eagles once their original fan base have passed on.
Make Sense now?
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No need for good luck, we've been at it for years. Just need the damn covid gone, and the venues to survive (but that's another matter).
It takes time, effort... and of course some decent material, but it's doable. "People just want to hear what they know" is an oversimplification. Yes, play the hits and you're safe. But play something danceable and uplifting, and it'll work too. Not all of it, but keep writing stuff, see what works, and it'll be ok: people will have a good time, dance, get thirsty, drink lots of beer... band gets paid, bar makes money, people return to the bar next weekend... everybody happy
To be clear: nothing against playing covers, I do that too and love it. I just don't like excuses
I think you're pretty much right about this, but I think the market has a lot to do with it. In a small market like where I live, there is only really 1 or 2 venues where original music of any kind goes over well. The rest is covers but I've seen people through a couple of their one tunes in without too many issues.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
The very fact that a generation after their heyday, they are still about the most popular band, means they aren't going anywhere (anymore than Beethoven, Duke Ellington, Louie Armstrong, etc.) They aren't willing to take the puny amount offered from youtube and similar services (which has been mocked on this thread repeatedly). It's clear they know where their bread is buttered. If you look at the biggest blockers, you will see they are the biggest earning acts out there. Henley has said the band employs over 60 people for this purpose.
C'mon, not playing for exposure is an off repeated statement here.
So you're saying that the Eagles are still one of the yearly top earners? I don't know if I buy that and I don't suppose either of us has data to prove it. But honestly, who is actually forking over money for recorded copies of their music? I'm guessing the bulk of the income has been from their most recent tours and Las Vegas residencies.
I don't think "playing for exposure" has the same meaning for them as it does for others on their way up. Not sure why you're equating the two.
Absolutely in agreement.
I never expect (or even want!) an all originals scene. I was just replying to what I saw as a "playing originals is just a guarantee of empty bars and can't work" statement. I responded to that because I know it's not true (I managed ok until covid, and know quite a few others that do ok too)... but it comes with its own set of idiosyncrasies and it takes more work, and it's not for everybody of course.
Sometimes, you just want to play, enjoy it, get paid and not invest more than that. And that's ok too. I'm the same! it's the reason most bands I play with, I join them after they're established, and if they play covers even better (less work). I think what I wrote may read (a bit arrogantly even?) as if I were saying playing covers is for lazy people or something
but that's not what I meant either. I just don't want someone who really wants to play their own material to feel discouraged thinking it cannot work. It's not easy, but it's very doable if you put the effort and are patient (and don't expect to be 'discovered' and become a millionaire... it could happen, I suppose, but that's going to be amazingly rare now
)Although I feel a bit strange talking about this when, at least in my area, live music is far from returning and I can see places closing down permanently already. Right now, I'd be delighted to busk in the park for pennies, to be honest, playing anything.
I think I didn't express myself well.
I don't mean that everybody should do originals. I just wanted to say that you don't need to be strictly covers to have a chance to play in these smaller venues and music bars. It's harder, but doable, and if that's what you want to do you should give it a try and not give up just because it's harder than playing covers (if you REALLY want to play your own material). That's all.
Full disclosure: as much as I've been involved with originals over the years, some with more success than others, I am one of those people who could not really write a decent song. Not by myself. I come up with some good riffs, some ideas here and there, even for lyrics... but I could never do the whole thing myself. I surrounded myself with people who are good at it, and I help, but my contribution is never the primary. If I had to play my own song... even I would not stay to watch the band
Very true.
I have been lucky that in my area there are (or were!) enough opportunities to get originals out (at least of genres that are more... festival/party friendly... if you played metal you'd struggle a lot), but in my original home town, no chance.
As often is the case, the most accurate answer is "it depends" eh?
Yep it always "depends". People don't tend to like that answer but it is true.
Also wanted to note that at no point did I say not getting paid is ok. To say I did is doing a bad job of mind reading. What I'm saying is the business model has to change over time. Of course they don't really need to money at this point I'm sure, but they deserve what they deserve.
