Cover Band Tunings / Multiple Basses / Etiquette

[2112]

I agree with the observation about the Drop being a little bit of a tone thief, although that’s really hard to hear in a mix and is barely noticeable if you just drop a half step. The further you shift, the more pronounced the effect on tone.

Agreed. I'm not as sensitive as others about my tone, but if the Drop sucked a ton of tone out I wouldn't use it. I'm mainly only 1 or 2 half-steps down, with an occasional excursion to 3. As a matter of convenience one time I did take it down 5 to convert from EADG to BEAD and it did okay.

What is easy to hear is when I forget to set it back when we play a song in regular tuning, so we still try to batch our songs in different tunings to minimize changes.

Haha I remember going through this when I started using it... so many dirty looks...

 

[DanGroove]

When I was playing in a busy cover band with a pretty broad spectrum of tunes I did exactly as several others here have suggested. I got a 5 string and played in standard tuning. If they were playing a song detuned I just learned the song in the detuned key instead of detuning my bass.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Dont swap basses. Just deal with tunings. The guy who I play bass for is a capo freak. i watch the guitar player for chords. but you see a G chord being played that is capo'd 3 frets up, you have to think.

 

[rtslinger]

I just re-tune the E string we tried to have the drop d stuff together so I don't need to constantly d tune

 

[silky smoove]

Why not? I use a 5-string in standard tuning for everything. The guitar player swaps between 3 guitars, one regular tuning, one Eb tuning, and one in open G (I think).

If the tune requires lots of pedaling on an open low D with accent notes elsewhere on the neck it can be very difficult to achieve the same thing when fretting a low D at the third fret of the B string as opposed to the intended open low D. If the tempo is quite high it can be impossible. I find this type of thing most common in modern hard rock and metal genres which may or may not apply to the OP's question.

 

[ctmullins]

Multiple basses, definitely.

I’m also a lover of the Hipshot Xtender, and all of my four-strings have one. Depending on the actual riff, a five-string can be far more cumbersome than a drop-D four. And for songs in Eb, no way I would try that on a standard-tuned fiver!

Multiple basses are fun. If quick switching is a concern, grab a cheap A/B pedal.

 

[nickpc]

I've had this thought a few times - why isn't there a device to drop all strings by 1 or 2 half steps? Basically a Hipshot XTender for all of the strings? There's definite need to go from EADG to EbAbDbGb for a song or two, down to DGCF, then back to EADG. Even at a few hundred dollars it would still be cheaper than a second bass and simpler to make switches. I have to think someone has tried this, I'm just wondering why they aren't out there as it would solve the OPs problem, which isn't all that unique.

 

[GrapeBass]

I've had this thought a few times - why isn't there a device to drop all strings by 1 or 2 half steps? Basically a Hipshot XTender for all of the strings? There's definite need to go from EADG to EbAbDbGb for a song or two, down to DGCF, then back to EADG. Even at a few hundred dollars it would still be cheaper than a second bass and simpler to make switches. I have to think someone has tried this, I'm just wondering why they aren't out there as it would solve the OPs problem, which isn't all that unique.

Part of the problem is that each string would need to be detuned differently.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Thanks for the 5er suggestions, yeah it's not a matter of "learning a 5er" as I already have 2, and I play them fine, It's more a matter of personal preference, I just like how my 4's feel, don't get me wrong, my 5's play great, I'm just happier on a 4 if that makes sense?

If however we landed a big corporate event (or something similar) I'd totally play a 5er, if for no other reason to keep things flowing better, but the bulk of the gigs are going to be bar gigs, or other small(ish) events, and probably a few beer tents next summer.

I’d be using my 5 string for your gig.
I do corporate/function/wedding/club gigs. I get away with a 4 string because all the low stuff is synth bass stuff that I cop with an OC2. I tune down a tone for one song which is usually out last tune for the night.
I’ve never heard of de-tuning pedals before!

 

[Smooth_bass88]

25916039[/URL], member: 151755"]OK, so a short (or long) question…Advance Sorry to the TL;DR folks.

So, I just landed my first cover band position a few weeks back (established act, with great musicians), we don’t have anything on the books until late spring, so I have some time to get up to speed with the songs and gear needed…which segues into the questions.

Those of you that gig regularly in cover bands, do you bring multiple basses for different tunings? Or do you bring something like the Digitech Drop pedal to accomplish this? Both guitar players in this band use the Drop pedal, and “suggested” I get one, but I have no experience with those pedals to “simulate” a lowered tuning.

I have multiple basses, so that’s not a worry, but what’s the etiquette for switching basses for different tunings? All of the songs we play are in one of four tunings…either standard (or standard w/ drop D), then ½ step down (or ½ step w/ drop Db).

Basically I’ve been using 2 basses, one in standard, and one a ½ step down, then use Hipshot Xtenders for dropping the E's. I’m pretty fast making the switch between basses, and I’m pretty sure I can accomplish it in less than 30 seconds (while the BL entertains the crowd).

In my original band it was easy, we'd just cluster the same tunings on the set list to facilitate fewer guitar swaps...with the cover band, that isn't quite as easy, some songs just simply don't go together despite the same tuning.

So what do you veterans do?? Multiple basses?? FX pedal for alternate tuning??

Assuming we’re in standard A440 tuning (not tuned down a half step), I just bring one of my four string basses with a Hipshot Bass Xtender, for dropping down to low D. I’ve rarely needed to go below that, but I also have a five string (tuned to standard pitch) just in case.

 

[nickpc]

Part of the problem is that each string would need to be detuned differently.

True, but we already handle things like that - strings intonate differently and the bridge is designed to do just that. And Hipshot Xtenders have 2 detune points for dropping a half or full step.

I'm wondering if someone worked through the issues and then decided it wasn't a viable solution - at $200 it wouldn't be overpriced (considering a single Xtender is $70+), but at $1000 not as much.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Most of the professional cover bands I’ve been in don’t leave enough time between songs to switch instruments. I suppose you could build the time into the set plan, but you’d be adding baggage. Or play a 5 string.

Same, we segue between songs without a break like a DJ. The last note of the song immediately transitions to the first beat of the song. We don't have 15 seconds, we don't even 2 seconds to switch.

"Shake it Off" to "Footloose."

"Shake it OFF" and the lyric off is the first beat of the drum intro to Footloose including tempo change, 4 bar intro instead of the 40 second one and boom.

I prefer 4 strings as well but for the sake brevity need to do 5s, though I can still make a 4 work with either like octave pedals or whatever.

My bandleaders are also prioritize reliable gear than can switch up rather than authentic tones from the record.

 

[thekyle55]

Why not? I use a 5-string in standard tuning for everything. The guitar player swaps between 3 guitars, one regular tuning, one Eb tuning, and one in open G (I think).

I used to have a 4-string with a Hipshot for a low D but no longer play it because I have the 5-string.

There are songs that it isn't appropriate. There are basslines that don't translate well to the five string. The fourth fret of the B string doesn't sound the same as an open E tuned down a half step.

I play a 5 string, and I use tuning pedals for most things. If I didn't, I would change guitars when we changed tunings.

 

[GrapeBass]

True, but we already handle things like that - strings intonate differently and the bridge is designed to do just that. And Hipshot Xtenders have 2 detune points for dropping a half or full step.

I'm wondering if someone worked through the issues and then decided it wasn't a viable solution - at $200 it wouldn't be overpriced (considering a single Xtender is $70+), but at $1000 not as much.

Too complicated IMHO

Would probably best be done at the bridge, rather than the neck. Weight may also be an issue.

 

[ComeHomeShane]

+1 on the 5 string bass.

I've been playing in cover bands for 6 years now. For a while I was trying to use different basses on the same gig, but it was always a hassle to switch during a set. I also tried Drop D approach, but again it was always a hassle to do the re-tuning during a set while everyone is waiting on me.

I had always been weary of 5 strings and felt intimidated by it. When covid stopped everything, my personal project became to figure out the 5 string and make an informed decision about if it was a possibility. I borrowed a friend's 5 string and got to practicing. I was actually surprised at how quickly I became acclimated to the extra string. The hardest thing about the switch was relearning how to mute strings. After a month of practice I felt pretty confident that 5 strings was the way to go. I started researching what I wanted and by the end of 2020 had two of my own 5'rs. Honestly, I haven't looked back or doubted my choice at all. The B string opens up so much musical possibilities. After a year of regularly using a 5, I feel fairly inhibited by 4 strings.

it's not for everyone, but for cover bands, 5 strings makes life a lot easier.

 

[NathOBX]

Jiminy Christmas! Why not just do Eb across the board. My cover band did both e standard and d standard guitars/basses for a while and then just went with Eb to simplify things. Tell the singer to get over him/her/theirself...I mean fire the drummer.

 

[ZedLepp]

I would bring 2 basses. We used E & Eb tunings.
We would list our tunes so that 1 set is in E, next set in Eb then the last set is in E.

 

[jad]

Here’s what I do…
We do some songs that were originally down a half step in Standard.
I use a Hipshot for drop D.
I pitch shift (HX Stomp) to go a half step down/drop C#, or to BEAD.
I mix in an octave down on a couple of songs and play them up the neck.
I also have full step down and half step up available if I need them.
I don’t bother to group songs because we react to the room.
I still end up waiting for the keys and guitars to get ready. That’s time I use to touch up my tuning.

 

[biobass]

While musical theater is my main gig, I have also been playing in cover bands - mostly pop, rock and jazz (when doing corporate, banquet type gigs) - for over 50 years. I played most of that on a 4-string ‘65 Jazz and a 4-string Fender A/E fretless. I put a HipShot Detuner on the Jazz maybe 20 years ago. Around that time I also acquired a Roscoe Beck 5 and a Turner Renaissance fretless 5. More and more of my theater and cover band work began calling for 5-string bass. Like the OP, I just preferred playing the 4-strings. For a while I would switch to a 5-string when necessary, but soon realized that it was just easier to play the 5s all night. In the cover bands even 15 seconds to change can seem like an eternity when the dance floor is packed. Playing musical theater taught me to be comfortable playing in all the non-rock keys. The show that I’m currently playing has multiple tunes in 5 and 6 flats.

Admittedly, I don’t play with many guitarists who consistently play in down-tunings, with Superstition in Eb being a notable exception. I also don’t play much music that was written in lowered tunings. However, I do play with a lot of guitarists who use capos and the occasional open tunings. Over the years I’ve learned to trust my ears more than my eyes when following a guitarist who plays in a non-standard tuning.

With all that said, in my experience, playing a 5 string covers just about everything I need. Yes, there are times when I have to really stretch to play a low note pedal and higher note fills, or alternatively I will switch octaves, or just do what I can to make it work.

What surprises me with the OP’s situation, is that around here and in my experience, with cover bands, the vast majority of the audience doesn’t care if you play every note and every lick exactly like the record. As a matter of fact, it is kind of expected that the band will have their own take on songs. Otherwise, the audience can listen to the recorded music in the background. Certainly, for much rock it was non-idiomatic to play live exactly like it was recorded; pop music was maybe more so. It might be different for other genres. Unless one is playing in a tribute band, where note for note accuracy is expected, I just don’t see where a basic 5-string in standard tuning wouldn’t fulfill the needs of a cover band.

Good luck with your new gig!

 

[LBS-bass]

Admittedly, I don’t play with many guitarists who consistently play in down-tunings, with Superstition in Eb being a notable exception. I also don’t play much music that was written in lowered tunings. However, I do play with a lot of guitarists who use capos and the occasional open tunings. Over the years I’ve learned to trust my ears more than my eyes when following a guitarist who plays in a non-standard tuning.

Superstition is one of those few songs I would tune down for. You just can't play it right without the open strings, especially if you're playing it the way my bands tend to play it, with the bass doing the clavinet and horn parts.

Capos and guitarists and non-standard tunings, yep, I played with a guitarist on Saturday who was in a weird open tuning and supposed to be putting a capo on for a song in C#. He started the intro and I'm thinking "that sounds weird" then I started playing and he had the capo on the wrong fret, playing in C. Everybody's looking at each other funny; then I yell across "he's in C!" and the whole band had to transpose the song into C from C# on the fly. Good times.