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Custom Bass Situation - What's the policy?

#22
The other side of it

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6373876#post6373876

In his thread he mentions he paid you back 100% of ALL your money before sending you the neck and body for FREE. That's a pretty good deal in my eyes, even with the 18 month wait I'd take a free body and neck any day.

You make no mention of this at all on your thread. :eyebrow:
 
#24
#25
Phil Mailloux said:
The other side of it

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6373876#post6373876

In his thread he mentions he paid you back 100% of ALL your money before sending you the neck and body for FREE. That's a pretty good deal in my eyes, even with the 18 month wait I'd take a free body and neck any day.

You make no mention of this at all on your thread. :eyebrow:
Click to expand...

Wrong.

ZombiCrow said:
The only good thing that came out of the experience was that he refunded my money after I finally told him a year and a half was too long waiting for a simple body and neck.
Click to expand...

:eyebrow:

EDIT: Jazz Ad beat me to it.
 
#29
IMO:

You have a right to complain a bit about the time. Although, convalescence post-heart attack can be far more than some people think it is. It is not like getting over a cold, or even mono. It can take a very long time.

If you took your full money back, you have zero right to complain about quality of the work, because you have no right to even own the pieces. They are a gift. If you had received only partial money back, such as if the builder had held back the deposit, then you'd probably have a right to all work done up to that point. But, that is not the case.

I think you should consider yourself unfortunate to have lost the time, but fortunate to have a partially done bass for no charge.
 
#30
pilotjones said:
IMO:

You have a right to complain a bit about the time. Although, convalescence post-heart attack can be far more than some people think it is. It is not like getting over a cold, or even mono. It can take a very long time.

If you took your full money back, you have zero right to complain about quality of the work, because you have no right to even own the pieces. They are a gift. If you had received only partial money back, such as if the builder had held back the deposit, then you'd probably have a right to all work done up to that point. But, that is not the case.

I think you should consider yourself unfortunate to have lost the time, but fortunate to have a partially done bass for no charge.
Click to expand...

+1...it's not like the builder was setting out to stuff you around. He had a legit illness and looks like he did what he could.

You had a right to get impatient, but probably should have hung out a little longer...a couple months of some progress pics may have helped here, perhaps.

at any rate...you now have a good starting point for another luthier to pick up the pieces (literally :hmm:) but be prepared to pay for the finishing (perhaps your money will cover it)

I don't think you have a real right to complain. I think you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time...bass happens..
 
#32
Custom Nightmare?

ZombiCrow,
If you have received a full refund and the body and neck was sent to you at no charge, why do you still feel the need to complain about it? It is what it is, regardless of how much time was spent waiting. You seem like you're really starting to split hairs here, people learn life lessons every day. Consider yourself lucky compared to worse scenarios others have come across, getting ripped off, etc. Feel fortunate that It came out the way it did and move on.
 
#33
I believe that the OP has every right to complain and I for one am glad that he did.
I obviously feel bad for the builder and his health problems, but they have very little relevance to this, which is a simple commercial endeavor. Sorry, but once you accept the money from a customer, you have accepted a responsibility to that customer, to deliver. Whether you are GM or a small business, you have a responsibility to deliver. 18 months is unacceptable! The builder should have contacted the OP immediately and told him about his woes and offered an immediate refund. Stringing a customer along for 18 months is ridicules!
Yes, the builder tried to make it right, but IMO, about 12 months too late.
So, does the OP have a right to whine... yup! Did the builder do the right thing... eventually, but this kind of experience is exactly the kind of thing we NEED to know about here, so we can make informed decisions.
No one ever said owning your own business was going to be all fun and games!
So now the OP is only slightly ahead of his position 18 months ago, he has a "flawed neck", an unfinished body and yet another bill to another builder to get it to where it should have been 12 months ago!
Had the builder contacted the OP immediately upon realizing his misfortune, the OP would have contacted another builder and he would have his new and WORKING bass now. I'm sure his post about this builder would have been substantially more positive than what we have here!
fishheadjoe
 
#34
After 18 months he got all his money back (15 or 16 more than he expected maybe) and a neck and body FOR FREE. This is not what the customer wanted but he now own a partial complete bass FOR FREE. Any builder could finished it and that will cost half of the original price (or maybe less). If Id be the customer Id be happy for paying much less than I thought for that bass!!
 
#35
I'm in the middle here between FishHead and Alembic.

Alembic's right, the OP did get far more than he was entitled to. There is no reason to expect to receive both the money AND the product, yet he did.

On the other hand, FishHead makes an excellent point. I feel for the luthier on a personal level, but on a professional level, this was a major screw up. Illness does not forgive business obligations. It's a risk you accept when you have your own business, and if you aren't prepared for such situations you have failed in your business procedures and planning.

In this case, it seems a timely refund and, "I'm sorry, due to my current health issues I will not be able to complete the work in a reasonable amount of time. I am refunding your payment, and will contact you when my situation changes" would have solved the entire issue before it became a problem in the first place.

I think there was some naivety on the side of the luthier in regards to what is the proper way to do business. That said, the OP did get more than he was entitled to, so there is a sense of trying to make things right from the luthier's end.

Personally, I'd have cancelled the order and gone to court long before the end of this if there was any issue with my cancellation, but that's me.

-Mark
 
#36
I say be glad you didn't get totally ripped off and leave it at that......trust me there are much worse scenarios, one of my own included.

I would highly recommend searching the crap out of this forum before you dive in on any "Custom Project". Had I known at the time I went for a particular luthier (mentioned elsewhere in this forum) I would never have cut loose with the cash for the bass that after 4+ years never materialized (and refund) I never got back.

Buyer Be (very) Aware!!
 
#37
lamarjones said:
you got a full refund AND a body and neck?
Click to expand...

in my eyes the builder made more than good on a project that his health (heart troubles he claims to have let be known early in the project) hindered timely completion of.

FYI: doesn't Ash 'suck in' paint for months... I imagine a purely 'Gloss Black' finish with no pits would take quite a while to build up. But I don't do finishing so I may be way off base.
 
#38
James Hart said:
FYI: doesn't Ash 'suck in' paint for months... I imagine a purely 'Gloss Black' finish with no pits would take quite a while to build up. But I don't do finishing so I may be way off base.
Click to expand...

it does 'suck in' so that's why you use grain filler.... takes a little bit more time but not 10 months more time.
 
#39
What an interesting pair of threads. I do thank the OP for bringing his situation to our attention. He is out 18 months of waiting, and it appears that he was not handled appropriately, but in light of the full refund he recieved, his complaints regarding the unfinished nature of the parts, and the lack of certain parts seems totally unjustified.

On the other hand, here we have a luthier with at least one other situation where they failed to deliver a quality product to a member of this forum. That's a very serious situation and should be made known.

Complicating the issue is the usual "He said, I said" and feelings of self righteousness on both sides, that accompanies this kind of an issue.

In the future, I think folks who post about bad experiences with a vendor really need to include more detailed email exchanges, and pictures.

Also, I'd like to know how much the deal was for. I have a sneaking suspicion that alot of folks are drawn in by low prices, but fail to realize that low price comes with a cost.
 
#40
Fishheadjoe said:
I believe that the OP has every right to complain and I for one am glad that he did.
I obviously feel bad for the builder and his health problems, but they have very little relevance to this, which is a simple commercial endeavor. Sorry, but once you accept the money from a customer, you have accepted a responsibility to that customer, to deliver. Whether you are GM or a small business, you have a responsibility to deliver. 18 months is unacceptable! The builder should have contacted the OP immediately and told him about his woes and offered an immediate refund. Stringing a customer along for 18 months is ridicules!
Yes, the builder tried to make it right, but IMO, about 12 months too late.
So, does the OP have a right to whine... yup! Did the builder do the right thing... eventually, but this kind of experience is exactly the kind of thing we NEED to know about here, so we can make informed decisions.
No one ever said owning your own business was going to be all fun and games!
So now the OP is only slightly ahead of his position 18 months ago, he has a "flawed neck", an unfinished body and yet another bill to another builder to get it to where it should have been 12 months ago!
Had the builder contacted the OP immediately upon realizing his misfortune, the OP would have contacted another builder and he would have his new and WORKING bass now. I'm sure his post about this builder would have been substantially more positive than what we have here!
fishheadjoe
Click to expand...

I believe that you are missing a big part of the picture here...I believe the correspondence began with the builder fully intending to finish the product...and I believe the OP was agreeing to this...finally the OP got impatient...and the builder refunded the money, and showing no ill will, sent the parts too..

when you're a one man band and something like a heart problem occurs, it's difficult to deliver the goods...first order of business: "don't die" :)
 

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