- Mar 25, 2005
- 1,172
- 10
- Disclosures
- Builder: Mailloux Basses
Wow, that's very decent of you. Just as an added bit of info was that $340 just a downpayment or the full amount of what the parts should have cost?
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Custom Bass Situation - What's the policy?
- Thread starter ZombiCrow
- Start date
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
considering this is turning in a different direction, i'm going to change the title of the thread.
Yeah, i'm curious as well. You ordered a bass body and neck, but not assembly...?
I would have taken it to a tech and taken the costs for the (finish) repair work out from the money i would pay back to him, but i applaud you on returning the money - imho keeping the bass parts and the money is a bit over the top.
Good to see everything's sort of worked out.
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
+1, returning the refund was the right thing to do if you're going to keep the parts. However, I don't think it was fair that you had to wait so long.
I had a somewhat similar situation with a repairman and a Les Paul with a broken headstock. I took the Les Paul into a local shop, who said that they didn't do this sort of work in-house, but they have a guy who does it. I paid a deposit and they said they'd call me in 2 weeks with an estimate. After repeated attempts to find out what the situation was, I never did get a straight answer... Fast forward 2 years, still don't have my Les Paul back. I'm in another, different local shop (call it Shop B) in my town and mention "the case of the missing Les Paul" to the shop owner, who reluctantly tells me that he, in fact, was the one the first store hired to repair my instrument. He said that he was cleaning the instrument up and accidentally spilled a corrosive chemical on the finish, ruining it, and was frankly embarrassed about it, so he never told the Shop A what happened and never fixed the headstock, either. He just put the guitar back in its case and tucked it away in his shop, hoping the owner would forget about it.
Well, I wasn't too thrilled, and the guy seemed truly sorry and offered to do the headstock repair for free. It was a pretty bad break—this would have been the second time it had been repaired, and would probably cost me $300-400, so we agreed that he would do the repair for free in exchange for taking 2 years too long.
Fast forward nine months, I still had not received my guitar, and he kept giving me B.S. excuses—he was moving and didn't have time to get to it, he was swamped with other (paying) repairs, he was going out of town to a NAMM show, etc. Finally, I told him, just give it back, and I'll take it somewhere else. He sweet-talked me into giving him another chance, saying that if I took it somewhere else, I would have to pay for the repair, and this way I would be getting it "for free." I told him if he wasn't actually going to do the repair, it doesn't matter whether it's free or not, but I would give him another chance.
After three MORE months (3 years total now), I went back to Shop A and told them that I knew Shop B had my guitar, knew the story about the finish damage, showed them my 3-year-old receipt from dropping it off (including serial number, proof of my deposit, and proof that they gave me a 2-week time frame for calling with the estimate). I told them I wanted my guitar back and it was their responsibility to go get it from Shop B, since they outsourced it to him.
The manager of Shop A called me the next day and said he had my guitar and I could come get it anytime. I told him that I wanted him to ship the guitar to Gibson and get an estimate for repairing the damage to the finish, since technically, his shop (Shop A) was responsible for that. The manager told me that they're not a Gibson dealer, but I, as the owner, could contact their repair department about that. So, I picked up the guitar, packed it up, emailed Gibson in Nashville and sent it off (total cost to me: $175, including Gibson's fee for a repair estimate). I had my lawyer write a letter to Shop A first to make sure they were going to cover these costs, and after some wrangling and two more months, got them to agree.
Gibson called me to say it would cost $1850 to fix the finish (the color had been discontinued, so it would have to go through their custom shop). They also said it would cost $1800 on top of that to repair the headstock. I told them to go ahead and ship the guitar back to me and I would consider it totaled, since $3,650 > the cost of even a brand new one.
Shop A's lawyer wrote to my lawyer and said that in Shop A's expert opinion, the guitar was only worth about $500, considering that I brought it in with a broken headstock, and that they would be willing to reimburse me the $170 in shipping both ways (to & from Gibson) and the $75 evaluation fee from Gibson.
After several letters back and forth, it was pretty clear that they were unwilling to pay a single cent for the fact that I had to wait 3 years and 4 months for my guitar and that when I got it back, it was still not repaired, even though the owner of Shop B agreed to repair it for free in exchange for taking so long.
As I'd already paid the $245 in shipping and fees to Gibson, plus another $250 to my attorney for writing letters, I agreed to settle for their offer of $745. The settlement included a signed agreement from me saying I would not take any legal action against either Shop A or Shop B in connection with this incident, so that pretty well seals the deal.
At the end of the day, I have my Les Paul back after 3 years and 4 months, with the finish corroded from this chemical, and with a still-broken headstock, and I also have $250 left from the settlement—not even enough to get the headstock repaired by another shop, let alone the finish.
There's really nothing I can do... These things happen. I still have a credit at Shop A from my original deposit, but I really don't even want to talk to them again. I mostly shop in St Louis now.
I had a somewhat similar situation with a repairman and a Les Paul with a broken headstock. I took the Les Paul into a local shop, who said that they didn't do this sort of work in-house, but they have a guy who does it. I paid a deposit and they said they'd call me in 2 weeks with an estimate. After repeated attempts to find out what the situation was, I never did get a straight answer... Fast forward 2 years, still don't have my Les Paul back. I'm in another, different local shop (call it Shop B) in my town and mention "the case of the missing Les Paul" to the shop owner, who reluctantly tells me that he, in fact, was the one the first store hired to repair my instrument. He said that he was cleaning the instrument up and accidentally spilled a corrosive chemical on the finish, ruining it, and was frankly embarrassed about it, so he never told the Shop A what happened and never fixed the headstock, either. He just put the guitar back in its case and tucked it away in his shop, hoping the owner would forget about it.
Well, I wasn't too thrilled, and the guy seemed truly sorry and offered to do the headstock repair for free. It was a pretty bad break—this would have been the second time it had been repaired, and would probably cost me $300-400, so we agreed that he would do the repair for free in exchange for taking 2 years too long.
Fast forward nine months, I still had not received my guitar, and he kept giving me B.S. excuses—he was moving and didn't have time to get to it, he was swamped with other (paying) repairs, he was going out of town to a NAMM show, etc. Finally, I told him, just give it back, and I'll take it somewhere else. He sweet-talked me into giving him another chance, saying that if I took it somewhere else, I would have to pay for the repair, and this way I would be getting it "for free." I told him if he wasn't actually going to do the repair, it doesn't matter whether it's free or not, but I would give him another chance.
After three MORE months (3 years total now), I went back to Shop A and told them that I knew Shop B had my guitar, knew the story about the finish damage, showed them my 3-year-old receipt from dropping it off (including serial number, proof of my deposit, and proof that they gave me a 2-week time frame for calling with the estimate). I told them I wanted my guitar back and it was their responsibility to go get it from Shop B, since they outsourced it to him.
The manager of Shop A called me the next day and said he had my guitar and I could come get it anytime. I told him that I wanted him to ship the guitar to Gibson and get an estimate for repairing the damage to the finish, since technically, his shop (Shop A) was responsible for that. The manager told me that they're not a Gibson dealer, but I, as the owner, could contact their repair department about that. So, I picked up the guitar, packed it up, emailed Gibson in Nashville and sent it off (total cost to me: $175, including Gibson's fee for a repair estimate). I had my lawyer write a letter to Shop A first to make sure they were going to cover these costs, and after some wrangling and two more months, got them to agree.
Gibson called me to say it would cost $1850 to fix the finish (the color had been discontinued, so it would have to go through their custom shop). They also said it would cost $1800 on top of that to repair the headstock. I told them to go ahead and ship the guitar back to me and I would consider it totaled, since $3,650 > the cost of even a brand new one.
Shop A's lawyer wrote to my lawyer and said that in Shop A's expert opinion, the guitar was only worth about $500, considering that I brought it in with a broken headstock, and that they would be willing to reimburse me the $170 in shipping both ways (to & from Gibson) and the $75 evaluation fee from Gibson.
After several letters back and forth, it was pretty clear that they were unwilling to pay a single cent for the fact that I had to wait 3 years and 4 months for my guitar and that when I got it back, it was still not repaired, even though the owner of Shop B agreed to repair it for free in exchange for taking so long.
As I'd already paid the $245 in shipping and fees to Gibson, plus another $250 to my attorney for writing letters, I agreed to settle for their offer of $745. The settlement included a signed agreement from me saying I would not take any legal action against either Shop A or Shop B in connection with this incident, so that pretty well seals the deal.
At the end of the day, I have my Les Paul back after 3 years and 4 months, with the finish corroded from this chemical, and with a still-broken headstock, and I also have $250 left from the settlement—not even enough to get the headstock repaired by another shop, let alone the finish.
There's really nothing I can do... These things happen. I still have a credit at Shop A from my original deposit, but I really don't even want to talk to them again. I mostly shop in St Louis now.
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
Oh, and that "name removed" person I mentioned a few posts back... I emailed him earlier today to ask him whatever happened with that, and if he ever ended up getting those other 3 basses he paid for, or getting his money back, or what. Here's what he replied:
Again, don't know the whole story with that and it's hearsay, but thought it was relevant.
Again, don't know the whole story with that and it's hearsay, but thought it was relevant.
That design problem should have been addressed by now.
---------------------------
I feel for everyone involved in this FUBAR situation.
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
That design problem should have been addressed by now.
True, true, unrelated
My LP is also ten years old now.
Thank you for changing the thread title.
Weird that the "name removed" guy still hasn't seen a deal worked out with the luthier...
Now, anyone know anyone who can do a "German carve" like the Mosrite basses have? I'm not done with this new beast yet.
Weird that the "name removed" guy still hasn't seen a deal worked out with the luthier...
Now, anyone know anyone who can do a "German carve" like the Mosrite basses have? I'm not done with this new beast yet.
Look up Vadim basses. He does that on his instruments. They are gorgeous. A search on TB will turn up some threads with links.Thank you for changing the thread title.
Weird that the "name removed" guy still hasn't seen a deal worked out with the luthier...
Now, anyone know anyone who can do a "German carve" like the Mosrite basses have? I'm not done with this new beast yet.
No idea whether he'd take in partially finished work, though. And I believe he's in a higher price range.
I think Scott French also has done it.
Zombi,
My compliments to you for how you have handled this situation. Hopefully, JC will re-build his reputation by learning from this experience.
My compliments to you for how you have handled this situation. Hopefully, JC will re-build his reputation by learning from this experience.
I am the name removed person...
I was afraid of entering this thread because to this date i'm still hoping my prepaid parts will arrive one day.
I learned a lot from this experience. The biggest part of the problem is Internet. You are dealing with someone you never met. You're dealing with someone you hope will be honnest.
(i'm not saying that JC wasn't honnest with me...)
The biggest part of the problem is that the confidence link between the two person (in my case the luthier and me) is broken. I think that sometimes it's hard to face the situation.
In my case for a while the luthier refused to face the situation by ignoring my email and phone calls. So it was very hard to keep believing what he was saying when i finally got news from him.
To this date i have only receive 2 out of 6 all paid items ordered.
I really believe and hope that i will receive the missing parts, people around me says that i'm a fool to think that i will ever receive the 4 missing parts.
It's really too bad because i really like the first instrument i ordered and received, it's my main bass.
I also receive an email from the luthier mentionnong that i was an ******* the open a thread on talkbass about the situation. The thing was that i never mentionned his name and when another TBer mentionned his name, i have contacted TB too have the thread delete. the thread was deleted half an hour after i first contacted a moderator.
I never, ever in my life beind insulted as i was in the email i receive by the luthier. He stated that i know nothing about building basses, he called me names that no one in my life even think about calling me. When one of my friend read that email, he immediately said let's go to the states beat this fu.... idiot. Mr. Cagle your are not perfect neither your basses, Even if the bass you build me is one of my favorite, i had the have frets glued cause they were lifting causing awfull buzz, i also had to pay to get it refinish because after 6 months the finish wasn't cured... I had to realigned to bridge cause it wasn't properly aligned. The walnut top wasn't bookmatched, there was glue line and the top made of 3 or 4 pieces of walnut. God it makes me feel better,LOL
Can you believe it, i still email this guy once a month hoping for my stuff.
I really understand why The person who started this thread did start the thread. Sometimes you are so frustrated, specially when you receive a letter like the one i received( i think you received 2). It made me feel better when i first wrote the thread about my own story, it's still made me feel better, it lets finally your frustration go out.
Honnestly Zombi, in your case JC was very nice to send your money back + you've got the neck and body. I think it was already fair to send your money back but it's just my opinion. You may not agree with me on this but i think it was fair.... But i really do not agree with any insults you had received
Last lesson for today, i've been dealing with many luthier in my life. All i can say is, if a luthier says it will take 2 weeks, expect 4 right away you won't be deceive...
Music is a passion for most of us. It's understandable to be frustrated when delays are not what was promised...
I'm SAD to see that the emails i had exchanged with some person in this thread regarding my situation, were posted without asking me first. It wasn't great from you guys, you should have asked me first!!! Today, i felt like i was forced to entered a thread i didn't wanna write in first.
Sorry for my English, i just did my best (i'm Francophone)
Yes i'm a frog!!!LOL
Francois
I was afraid of entering this thread because to this date i'm still hoping my prepaid parts will arrive one day.
I learned a lot from this experience. The biggest part of the problem is Internet. You are dealing with someone you never met. You're dealing with someone you hope will be honnest.
(i'm not saying that JC wasn't honnest with me...)
The biggest part of the problem is that the confidence link between the two person (in my case the luthier and me) is broken. I think that sometimes it's hard to face the situation.
In my case for a while the luthier refused to face the situation by ignoring my email and phone calls. So it was very hard to keep believing what he was saying when i finally got news from him.
To this date i have only receive 2 out of 6 all paid items ordered.
I really believe and hope that i will receive the missing parts, people around me says that i'm a fool to think that i will ever receive the 4 missing parts.
It's really too bad because i really like the first instrument i ordered and received, it's my main bass.
I also receive an email from the luthier mentionnong that i was an ******* the open a thread on talkbass about the situation. The thing was that i never mentionned his name and when another TBer mentionned his name, i have contacted TB too have the thread delete. the thread was deleted half an hour after i first contacted a moderator.
I never, ever in my life beind insulted as i was in the email i receive by the luthier. He stated that i know nothing about building basses, he called me names that no one in my life even think about calling me. When one of my friend read that email, he immediately said let's go to the states beat this fu.... idiot. Mr. Cagle your are not perfect neither your basses, Even if the bass you build me is one of my favorite, i had the have frets glued cause they were lifting causing awfull buzz, i also had to pay to get it refinish because after 6 months the finish wasn't cured... I had to realigned to bridge cause it wasn't properly aligned. The walnut top wasn't bookmatched, there was glue line and the top made of 3 or 4 pieces of walnut. God it makes me feel better,LOL
Can you believe it, i still email this guy once a month hoping for my stuff.
I really understand why The person who started this thread did start the thread. Sometimes you are so frustrated, specially when you receive a letter like the one i received( i think you received 2). It made me feel better when i first wrote the thread about my own story, it's still made me feel better, it lets finally your frustration go out.
Honnestly Zombi, in your case JC was very nice to send your money back + you've got the neck and body. I think it was already fair to send your money back but it's just my opinion. You may not agree with me on this but i think it was fair.... But i really do not agree with any insults you had received
Last lesson for today, i've been dealing with many luthier in my life. All i can say is, if a luthier says it will take 2 weeks, expect 4 right away you won't be deceive...
Music is a passion for most of us. It's understandable to be frustrated when delays are not what was promised...
I'm SAD to see that the emails i had exchanged with some person in this thread regarding my situation, were posted without asking me first. It wasn't great from you guys, you should have asked me first!!! Today, i felt like i was forced to entered a thread i didn't wanna write in first.
Sorry for my English, i just did my best (i'm Francophone)
Yes i'm a frog!!!LOL
Francois
