Custom Rig Build with Pro Audio Speakers

[Reuptake]

First time poster, been reading posts for a while:

Ultimate goal: Put together a small, powerful, all-purpose rig (Head and cabs)
However: I can't leave good enough alone. Off-the-shelf solutions always seem to have a critical drawback, the most common being not getting the 1000W (or even 800W) into a single cabinet at 4ohms. Two smaller cabinets cost twice as much, weigh more... I'm sure some of y'all have been gear shopping.

Specifically: I want about 1000W at my fingertips, and a 2x12 (or 2 12" cabs) seems to be where I'm headed, after reading about 30 threads on the topic here (possible exaggeration). I've looked at and am considering Markbass head or a Peavey MiniMega. Currently use an MXR bass DI and a EQ pedals headed straight into a QSC GX7 power amp, which I may consider sticking with.

Experience has informed me that anything short of 1000W will leave me turning all the knobs up to 11 in practice and gigs. I play a 5-string tuned to Ab, and find myself struggling to get decent projection in the low notes. The style that we play kinda demands that there is something from my corner shaking the walls a bit. I currently use 15" speakers (Eminence Kappa Pro 15A) in a few different cabs (with no consideration for enclosure size, port size, etc), but suspect that speaker size is not as important as I once thought. The idea of carrying around a pair of 12" cabs makes me almost giddy.

The trend out there seems to be to stick to speakers designed for bass guitar, to which I lend a great deal of respect. What would be the problem, if any, in reaching for something like an Eminence Definimax 4012ULF paired with a Legend BP122, with the appropriate box size and venting, and a crossover to make sure everyone is playing in their zone?

Of course there are a zillion speakers out there with which to tweak this question, with trade-offs of cost, weight, sensitivity, etc. I have all of the tools, carpentry/basic electrical skills, and patience for mistakes. Any feedback as to whether I am barking up a huge waste of time and money is greatly appreciated.

 

[Wasnex]

First time poster, been reading posts for a while:

Ultimate goal: Put together a small, powerful, all-purpose rig (Head and cabs)
However: I can't leave good enough alone. Off-the-shelf solutions always seem to have a critical drawback, the most common being not getting the 1000W (or even 800W) into a single cabinet at 4ohms. Two smaller cabinets cost twice as much, weigh more... I'm sure some of y'all have been gear shopping.

Specifically: I want about 1000W at my fingertips, and a 2x12 (or 2 12" cabs) seems to be where I'm headed, after reading about 30 threads on the topic here (possible exaggeration). I've looked at and am considering Markbass head or a Peavey MiniMega. Currently use an MXR bass DI and a EQ pedals headed straight into a QSC GX7 power amp, which I may consider sticking with.

Experience has informed me that anything short of 1000W will leave me turning all the knobs up to 11 in practice and gigs. I play a 5-string tuned to Ab, and find myself struggling to get decent projection in the low notes. The style that we play kinda demands that there is something from my corner shaking the walls a bit. I currently use 15" speakers (Eminence Kappa Pro 15A) in a few different cabs (with no consideration for enclosure size, port size, etc), but suspect that speaker size is not as important as I once thought. The idea of carrying around a pair of 12" cabs makes me almost giddy.

The trend out there seems to be to stick to speakers designed for bass guitar, to which I lend a great deal of respect. What would be the problem, if any, in reaching for something like an Eminence Definimax 4012ULF paired with a Legend BP122, with the appropriate box size and venting, and a crossover to make sure everyone is playing in their zone?

Of course there are a zillion speakers out there with which to tweak this question, with trade-offs of cost, weight, sensitivity, etc. I have all of the tools, carpentry/basic electrical skills, and patience for mistakes. Any feedback as to whether I am barking up a huge waste of time and money is greatly appreciated.

I suggest you look into Greenboy fEARful designs.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Reuptake]

Roger that. A little on the spendy side, but may be well worth it from what I've heard. My only hesitation really is that I haven't seen any "specs" on these designs. The F212 looks brilliant, but I'm used to pulling up a .pdf that has a chart and a list of specs where I can see the "useful" frequency range, power handling, etc. Maybe the info is just hiding from me, but it seems like I'm supposed to extapolate this information from the speakers that are used, while there are other factors such as the enclosure itself and the details of the crossover that will have some effect. I might be over-thinking this, as the consensus of quality is pretty strong in favor of fEARful/fEARless/Greenboy.

 

[Wasnex]

Roger that. A little on the spendy side, but may be well worth it from what I've heard. My only hesitation really is that I haven't seen any "specs" on these designs. The F212 looks brilliant, but I'm used to pulling up a .pdf that has a chart and a list of specs where I can see the "useful" frequency range, power handling, etc. Maybe the info is just hiding from me, but it seems like I'm supposed to extapolate this information from the speakers that are used, while there are other factors such as the enclosure itself and the details of the crossover that will have some effect. I might be over-thinking this, as the consensus of quality is pretty strong in favor of fEARful/fEARless/Greenboy.

Maybe you just need to poke around or join the builders forum.

The different fEARful boxes or supposed to be tuned so they work together.

Here's some of the relevant specs in graphical form.

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[BogeyBass]

Thousand watts
To get to the same place 400 can

No efficiency with mentioned drivers

 

[Reuptake]

Cool, thanks. Almost right away discovered that we are certainly not limited to the "Guitar/Bass Speakers" section of the Eminence website. While wandering down the fEARful path: At the heart of my original concern, is there certain characteristics of speakers that would make them patently inappropriate for a bass guitar cabinet? The concern that comes immediately to mind is 'durability'. In my youth I would just plug stuff in sometimes, like a bass guitar into someone's poor 2x12 guitar combo, and end up destroying the speakers even though I didn't feel like I was pushing anything.

Going back to the example of the Definimax 4012ULF. There looks like a pretty steady drop-off after 200Hz, so it's use is clearly limited, but it calls itself a 1200W speaker. Could this help solve the size vs power problem?

 

[Reuptake]

Thousand watts
To get to the same place 400 can

No efficiency with mentioned drivers

Posted my last before seeing this: Thanks. I see a sensitivity range, from the Definimax at 90.7db , to the Legend BP112 at 94.1db, to the Kappalite 3012LF (per fEARful design in a 1212/6) of 95.5db. I assume from what you are saying that a small difference in db goes a long way, which makes sense. The Kappa 15A that I currently use have a sensitivity of 100.5db, but there's certainly more to that messy chaotic tale.

 

[R Baer]

I wouldn't get too hung on on cab specs. Just because a manufacturer rates a cab at 1000w doesn't necessarily mean that cab is actually going to handle you pumping 1000 watts into it. Lot's of other factors come into play. It's totally possible for one player to be able to play a 1000w amp through a 1000w cab and have the cabinet handle it fine. It's also possible that another player would be able to get that cab to fart out at 500w, because of differences in technique and EQ settings. Then there's factors like sensitivity of the driver and overall box design to consider.

A well designed cab with a couple Kappalite 2012LF's, like the Greenboy designs, should be able to handle a lot of power, drop tuning, and EQ boost. The Definimax is for subwoofer designs, has low sensitivity and would require another driver to fill in the mids between it and your tweeter.

 

[BogeyBass]

Posted my last before seeing this: Thanks. I see a sensitivity range, from the Definimax at 90.7db , to the Legend BP112 at 94.1db, to the Kappalite 3012LF (per fEARful design in a 1212/6) of 95.5db. I assume from what you are saying that a small difference in db goes a long way, which makes sense. The Kappa 15A that I currently use have a sensitivity of 100.5db, but there's certainly more to that messy chaotic tale.

Double the power to get 3 dB
So yes 3 dB is huge jump

Likewise the 96dB is still low there is 12" drivers around 98 to even 99 dB

Stick 4 of those in a 4x12 and your cooking at 300 watts

Do a full stack with 8x12 150 watts melts faces. And all with very affordable 38 ounce magnets.

Beta 12a2
2x12 4x12 6x12 8x12
Pick your poison

No benefit from mixing drivers. Find one good speaker and multiply by as much as you can take. Every doubling of speaker area increases sensitivity by 3dB

1x12 98dB
2x12 101dB
4x12 104dB
8x12 107dB

 

[onamission]

Get two Dayton PA310-8 12"s from parts express and build this:

 

[Stumbo]

Ab~26hz=fundamental/1st harmonic
52hz=2nd harmonic

I suggest trying an HPF set at about 60 hz with what ever rig you use.

Also have your guitar player(s) HPF around 120hz.

Your rig will sound and sit in the mix better along with the speakers lasting longer.

 

[theduke1]

Warwick LWA 1000 into an
Acme LowB series 3 4ohm cab
I have one and it is killer
Duke

 

[brett adams]

i modded an electro voice tl806q cab by cutting it in half horizontally. eminence delta pro 12a is rated at 400w and should work in the cab. there are probably lighter neo speakers that would also work. i put evm 12ls rated at 200w each in my cabs. i don't need more than 400w per box.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

Ab~26hz=fundamental/1st harmonic
52hz=2nd harmonic

I suggest trying an HPF set at about 60 hz with what ever rig you use.

Also have your guitar player(s) HPF around 120hz.

Your rig will sound better and speakers last longer.

What slope do you suggest using? 6/12/24/48 db per octave?

 

[quickervicar]

I just played a MiniMega into a fEARless F112. It really is all that. It carried a good sized room at about 1/4 volume. Two of those cabs would be completely unnecessary. So of course I want them.

 

[Daniel Piper]

One of the 'bigger' barefaced cabs would do it.

In the around 1000 watt amp territory I would be personally looking at:

GK mbfusion 800
Mesa d800
Genzler mg800
Darkglass m900
Trickfish
Bergantino Bamp/Forte

But that's just me.

 

[agedhorse]

Posted my last before seeing this: Thanks. I see a sensitivity range, from the Definimax at 90.7db , to the Legend BP112 at 94.1db, to the Kappalite 3012LF (per fEARful design in a 1212/6) of 95.5db. I assume from what you are saying that a small difference in db goes a long way, which makes sense. The Kappa 15A that I currently use have a sensitivity of 100.5db, but there's certainly more to that messy chaotic tale.

The DefinaMax is a horrible choice for bass guitar, terrible mid response, terrible sensitivity, and I would suggest about 600 watts RMS per driver long term.

Get two Dayton PA310-8 12"s from parts express and build this:

View attachment 3101319

No way will they hold up to 500 watts RMS each.

What slope do you suggest using? 6/12/24/48 db per octave?

24dB/oct is a good compromise, Butterworth alignment.

 

[Nephilymbass]

First time poster, been reading posts for a while:

Ultimate goal: Put together a small, powerful, all-purpose rig (Head and cabs)
However: I can't leave good enough alone. Off-the-shelf solutions always seem to have a critical drawback, the most common being not getting the 1000W (or even 800W) into a single cabinet at 4ohms. Two smaller cabinets cost twice as much, weigh more... I'm sure some of y'all have been gear shopping.

Specifically: I want about 1000W at my fingertips, and a 2x12 (or 2 12" cabs) seems to be where I'm headed, after reading about 30 threads on the topic here (possible exaggeration). I've looked at and am considering Markbass head or a Peavey MiniMega. Currently use an MXR bass DI and a EQ pedals headed straight into a QSC GX7 power amp, which I may consider sticking with.

Experience has informed me that anything short of 1000W will leave me turning all the knobs up to 11 in practice and gigs. I play a 5-string tuned to Ab, and find myself struggling to get decent projection in the low notes. The style that we play kinda demands that there is something from my corner shaking the walls a bit. I currently use 15" speakers (Eminence Kappa Pro 15A) in a few different cabs (with no consideration for enclosure size, port size, etc), but suspect that speaker size is not as important as I once thought. The idea of carrying around a pair of 12" cabs makes me almost giddy.

The trend out there seems to be to stick to speakers designed for bass guitar, to which I lend a great deal of respect. What would be the problem, if any, in reaching for something like an Eminence Definimax 4012ULF paired with a Legend BP122, with the appropriate box size and venting, and a crossover to make sure everyone is playing in their zone?

Of course there are a zillion speakers out there with which to tweak this question, with trade-offs of cost, weight, sensitivity, etc. I have all of the tools, carpentry/basic electrical skills, and patience for mistakes. Any feedback as to whether I am barking up a huge waste of time and money is greatly appreciated.

The greenboy audio stuff maybe?

One of the 'bigger' barefaced cabs would do it.

In the around 1000 watt amp territory I would be personally looking at:

GK mbfusion 800
Mesa d800
Genzler mg800
Darkglass m900
Trickfish
Bergantino Bamp/Forte

But that's just me.

sorry if this is a bit off topic but where do people in the states buy barefaced cabs. I’m interested in getting one of their twin cabs but it seems like theyre made overseas and have very little availability here.

 

[Deleted member 261632]

Never heard of having a 1k cab not being able to move the wanted air or giving you the volume you need... I once ran 900Watt into 4 Ohm (warwick tube path 10.1 and the 900W 4 Ohm'ed 6x10 cabinet), it was loud enough to play Wacken Open Air Metalfestival without seperate FOH support. (I am not joking)
Same goes for my Ashdown 600Watt at 4Ohm setup. 600Watt at 4Ohm is stupendously loud (let alone the 900 Watt at 4 Ohm mentionned before)

Somebody made a suggestion of the EQ, I can wholeheartely subscribe to that.

 

[Dp1363]

The greenboy audio stuff maybe?

sorry if this is a bit off topic but where do people in the states buy barefaced cabs. I’m interested in getting one of their twin cabs but it seems like theyre made overseas and have very little availability here.

Barefaced ships to the US. And they ship quick. I have two Barefaced Big Baby 2's. Excellent cabs.
See link below:
Barefaced Bass - Ordering and Availability