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Cutting Order

D

durarl

Oct 29, 2007
53
0
www.myspace.com
#1
Hello everybody,
First build, and I am at a part that I really don’t want to screw up. I am building a 4 string neck through with a laminated neck. The neck has been glued up, and I am ready to start the shaping. I just wanted to run through what I thought would be a good cutting order. Let me know if my steps are out of order.

Cut 1- The side profile to get a rough depth for the body and neck.
Cut 2- Scarf cut and glue it up.
Cut 3- Cut the truss rod channel
Glue on the fret board
Cut 4- Cut the top view of the neck to get the correct width
Start rounding the neck

You experts that have done this before, please let me know. Am I doing it right, or am I setting myself up for extra work latter on.
 
#2
durarl said:
Hello everybody,
First build, and I am at a part that I really don’t want to screw up. I am building a 4 string neck through with a laminated neck. The neck has been glued up, and I am ready to start the shaping. I just wanted to run through what I thought would be a good cutting order. Let me know if my steps are out of order.

Cut 1- The side profile to get a rough depth for the body and neck.
Cut 2- Scarf cut and glue it up.
Cut 3- Cut the truss rod channel
Glue on the fret board
Cut 4- Cut the top view of the neck to get the correct width
Start rounding the neck
Click to expand...

Plane the neck square first.

Here's the order I do my necks in...

1) Glue and true the neck blank

2) Cut the scarf joint

3) Route for the truss rod

4) Glue the scarf joint

5) Taper neck on the bandsaw and plane or sand flat/smooth

6) Install truss rod and glue on fingerboard blank

7) Taper fingerboard using a router with a follower bit, so that it follows the neck profile

8) Carve back profile


I always cut my scarf joint while the neck is still square (rectangular)... I don't taper any profiles prior to cutting and gluing the scarf.

Because I usually do my scarf joint with the piece glued to the back of the headstock (as opposed to glued in the neck under the fretboard, like Wilser does it... I may change that in the future, though), I generally route my truss rod channel before I glue the scarf.

durarl said:
You experts that have done this before, please let me know. Am I doing it right, or am I setting myself up for extra work latter on.
Click to expand...

I would not claim to be an expert, by any stretch. I'm constantly learning faster, easier, and better ways of doing things, and I look back and say "why didn't I do it that way the last 10 times"... Your early work will always be *more* work... but that doesn't mean that it won't be worth it. At the very least, it's a learning experience. :)
 
#4
Scarf joint is an angled neck joint that allows you to use a thinner neck blank, and also promotes a stronger angled headstock because you are dealing with straight grain instead of the run-out you get on end grain.
 
#6
SDB Guitars said:
...7) Taper fingerboard using a router with a follower bit, so that it follows the neck profile...
Click to expand...

Is there any danger of chipping the fingerboard with the router bit? Would this part be safer with a hand plane?

As the neck wood is more likely to be softer and straighter grained then the fingerboard, would it be safer to taper the fingerboard using hand tools, then taper the neck using the router?
 
#7
Mikey R said:
As the neck wood is more likely to be softer and straighter grained then the fingerboard, would it be safer to taper the fingerboard using hand tools, then taper the neck using the router?
Click to expand...

The job could be done in both ways. There are people here that follows one way and people that follow the other one. If its done carefully there shouldnt be any problem when routing.
 
#8
Thanks for the advice. I cut the scarf joint this weekend, and with a little bit of sanding, it was a good fit. Unfortunately, I did not like the glue line across the head stock, so I ended up taking a scrap piece of the neck, and veneered it onto the top of my headstock. It has the same walnut pin striping, but I can't see the glue line anymore. In the future, I think I will glue the scarf joint to the end of the neck, instead of under the neck. I just didn't like the way the glue line ran right through the tuners.
 
#9
A brief comment - intending no criticism or insult :)

An exceptionally competent colleague recently lost three fingers in a jointer accident; if it could happen to him, it could happen to anybody. Common sense and safe work practices should make it abundantly clear that using a jointer to clean up a scarf joint is patently unsafe. Please don't do it.

When we joint bookmatched acoustic guitar soundboards in preparation for glue-up, we use a light box to better visualize the joint to assure the 1/8" thick panel will be as strong as possible. These surfaces are never sufficiently flat and straight for glue fresh off of the jointer. The scalloped mill marks left by a rotary tool like a jointer or planer don't yield optimal joinery surfaces: Good enough? Maybe. Optimal? No.

At school, we encourage students to clean up scarf joints using a well-tuned hand plane to create two dead-flat surfaces that meet without any gaps - a glue joint is only as good as the joinery itself. Unfortunately, I've seen dozens of acoustic guitars in which the irregularities endemic to sanding lead to irregular mating surfaces, conspicuous glue lines, and in a few cases, joint failures - and the forces acting on a bass are much higher.
 
#10
Jazzdogg said:
At school, we encourage students to clean up scarf joints using a well-tuned hand plane to create two dead-flat surfaces that meet without any gaps - a glue joint is only as good as the joinery itself. Unfortunately, I've seen dozens of acoustic guitars in which the irregularities endemic to sanding lead to irregular mating surfaces, conspicuous glue lines, and in a few cases, joint failures.
Click to expand...

Hey Jazzdogg,

Ive read that sandpaper doesnt make a good surface for glueing, but Ive also read that sanded surfaces can be cleaned up with a scraper, provided that the final surface is checked for flatness using a ruler and a light source. It wont be perfect but it sounds much easier than sweating with a block plane.

For info, I read it here:
Invalid Link Removed
 
#11
durarl said:
...I did not like the glue line across the head stock, so I ended up taking a scrap piece of the neck, and veneered it onto the top of my headstock....I just didn't like the way the glue line ran right through the tuners.
Click to expand...

Everyone who does a scarf joint this way adds a veneer on the top and back of the headstock, for this reason and to increase the strength of the joint. You can also add ears to the sides so that you'll never see the joint from any angle.

This make it a very strong joint with a totally hidden glue line, and you have the opportunity to do something artistic with your headstock veneers (i.e. match the body, or fretboard, or accents...whatever).

If you don't like how the joint looks at the headstock, I don't imagine you'll like how it looks underneath the first fret.
 
#12
I like the idea about putting on wings to hide the glue joint on the side and then the venner on top to hide the scarf joint. "If hind sight were..."

I agree that the jointer is a dangerous machine, but with the proper push sticks, guards, and respect, it is a very versitile tool.
 
#13
I saw the other day a video where a guy teaches how to prepared a scarf joint to be glued in some power tool which I think in english its called disk sander or something like that. It is a spinning disc with some sand paper on one side. The guy made some jig to feed the wood piece at 45° but it could be easily adapted to 13° or 15° for example. The sanded pieces looked pretty much ready to be glued.
 
#14
Mikey R said:
Hey Jazzdogg,
Ive read that sandpaper doesnt make a good surface for glueing, but Ive also read that sanded surfaces can be cleaned up with a scraper, provided that the final surface is checked for flatness using a ruler and a light source. It wont be perfect but it sounds much easier than sweating with a block plane.<SNIP>
Click to expand...

Under some circumstances, sanding can be acceptable for glue-prep, but I've seen enough flat boards turned into "potato chips" by inexperienced students armed with sandpaper to know that sanding is very unlikely to produce a surface "true" enough for fine joinery in most cases.

Scrapers are one of the first hand tools we teach our students to use because they're useful, versatile, and relatively easy to use. But, in inexperienced hands, a scraper is capable of ruining a previously flat surface - especially at the margins (it takes most of our students a few semesters to become comfortable and competent with a card scraper).

I've heard comments similar to your "sweating with a block plane" countless times from students who tried to use unfettled hand planes; these same students invariably whistle a different tune after they've learned how to "hot rod" a hand plane and have built a few Krenov-style planes of their own.

IMO & IME a well-tuned (fettled) hand plane is even more versatile and, once mastered, produce results more quickly, more accurately, and with less effort than a scraper or sandpaper; it takes just a few minutes with a sharp #5 to prep a scarf joint (a block plane is too small), and the surfaces will be far flatter than if abrasives or a card scraper were used.

Note to durarl: I agree that jointers are both dangerous and highly versatile tools; despite their versatility, they're not the best tool for this job. I won't use a powered jointer for stock that's less than 12" in length, which rules out scarf joints for me; and, IMO & IME, they don't produce the best possible surface for joinery, so additional hand-work would be required anyway.
 
#16
durarl said:
Jazzdogg,
The shop that I had access to is no longer available. (Mom and Dad just live too far away). Do you know of any good resources that really show how to setup and use a small block plane. I feel like mine is acting like a chisel more than a plane.
Click to expand...

For starters, try this:

"The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack
Published by the Taunton Press
ISBN#: 1-56158-317-0 (softcover)
ISBN#: 1-56158-155-0 (hardcover)

When it comes to new hand planes, models from Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley are pretty much ready to use right out of the box:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48944&cat=1,41182

Most "affordable" new hand planes should be considered a collection of parts that need to be fine-tuned before they'll work well; you can save money, but you'll have to spend several hours fettling before they'll perform properly.

If you know what you're looking for, you can still find good bargains on venerable old Stanley planes; a type #11 in good condition can be an excellent performer with a little TLC.

Whether you buy a new or used plane, a #4 (smooth plane) or #5 (jack plane) are among the most versatile. A low-angle block plane with an adjustable throat can be useful, and while they're not as versatile as larger planes, and aren't typically used for jointing, all of the furniture, cabinet, and instrument makers I know own at least one.

The low-angle smooth and jack planes being offered today have more in common with block planes than with bench planes in that they're both used with their blade bevel-up, and neither use a chip breaker; they can be a very good choice as a first plane. If you buy an extra blade and sharpen it at a different angle, you can effectively have two planes for just a little more than the cost of one.

Good luck in your quest!
 

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