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Cutting through reverb/being heard live

Coreymcd22

Coreymcd22

Guest
Apr 1, 2013
75
10
Upstate, SC
youngamericanlandscape.bandcamp.com
#1
I apologize in advance for the long post but I'm including alot of detail to help me pinpoint the problem. With all the knowledge on this forum it's worth a shot. I've had problems being heard in a live mix before but these were usually cases when I was competing with distorted, low-tuned guitars and my amp wasn't powerful enough, now that's not so much the case.

I play in a band now that I wouldn't consider to be extremely loud, yet at certain shows certain notes that I play get completely lost even with the volume over halfway and the gain at about half, basically constant clipping range. I play a Sunn Coliseum 300 through an Ampeg 808, my bass is a Spector Q4 with EMG HZs. During rehearsal this is not an issue, and this amp is plenty loud enough to shake my walls at much lower volumes than I use live.

Both of my guitarists use thick reverb and do alot of ambient/washed out volume swells, so it always sounds like they are putting out alot of low end frequency even without me playing. I've definitely noticed some bleed-through on certain notes during rehearsal where you can't tell where my notes begin and my second guitarists' end. His tone in particular is pretty warm with him using his neck pickup (active EMG) usually with reverb so I'm wondering if this is the root of the issue. I'm not sure how to EQ my bass to fit this kind of live mix, I've noticed that if I up the lows it seems to come through stronger but it still isn't quite cutting it. Is it possible that I just need to be louder? Just for good measure my guitarists are playing Sovtek MIG 60s, one out of an Avatar 4x12 and one out of an Orange 2x12. Any insight would be appreciated, thanks!
 
#3
turn up your high mids a bit. it can help you cut through the mix. i played in a rock band so i know how guitars with alot of low end can easily cover up the bass at times. it also depends alot on what kind of bass you have. i had a jazz bass which is known for cutting through the mix very well.
 
#6
Sounds like the guitarists have too much low end, I have been in this situation many times myself and I have to say that no amount of eq will get you where you want to be. Ask the guitarists to roll off the lows. If you are playing through decent PA system with subs then high pass everything accordingly, tom toms can really mess with the bass frequencies also, if this can't be achieved then I recommend using the Entwistle setting on your amp, tread on the guitarists turf.
 
#8
Also ask what is going on at FOH. It may just be what you are hearing on stage.
And technique can help somewhat. Are you using a pick?
What pedals are you playing through if any? A tube emulator could give you a rounder tone that the Colleseum can get.
 
#10
Runnerman said:
Also ask what is going on at FOH. It may just be what you are hearing on stage.
And technique can help somewhat. Are you using a pick?
What pedals are you playing through if any? A tube emulator could give you a rounder tone that the Colleseum can get.
Click to expand...

I thought this was the case with a lot of venues, but we also play a lot of small spaces where we aren't even mic'ed. There all you have to go on is what you hear and what people in the audience tell you, I know the bass travels out so people in the back of the club are hearing it more than I am, but I've still been told that the bass isn't loud enough. Getting the guitars to roll off some lows and boosting the mids has helped some. The jazz bass responded well to me turning the mids up more, it has that distinctive bite that cuts through, but playing fingerstyle with my Spector still isn't cutting through. Which is a shame because that bass sounds amazing on it's own.
 
#11
Runnerman said:
Also ask what is going on at FOH. It may just be what you are hearing on stage.
And technique can help somewhat. Are you using a pick?
What pedals are you playing through if any? A tube emulator could give you a rounder tone that the Colleseum can get.
Click to expand...

All I'm playing through now is an MXR M-80, a Boss DD-7, a Holy Grail, and an Ernie Ball volume pedal, not necessarily in that order. The closest thing I have to a tube emulator is an Ibanez TS-7 that I'm getting ready to mod to increase the bass response.
 
#12
the gtr is messing with your lows .. i would think the REV would make that even worse ... then the bigger the room , the worse those things would get .. !? i think everyone needs their own Tone/EQ ' space ' ... just like mixing tracks ... your old Sunn should be plenty loud and fuzzy enough .. ! i had the Concert bass and Colliseum heads when they came out in the 70's .. ! but most of those brain cells are dead .. ! ha ... i also had the Sunn folded horn 18" cabs for those lows .. !! it's sad you'll need to sacrifice the sound of your preferred tone to deal with the guitarists .. !

or get the "sound man " to make some tone suggestions .!?
 
#13
Coreymcd22 said:
All I'm playing through now is an MXR M-80, a Boss DD-7, a Holy Grail, and an Ernie Ball volume pedal, not necessarily in that order. The closest thing I have to a tube emulator is an Ibanez TS-7 that I'm getting ready to mod to increase the bass response.
Click to expand...
that could be the issue; reverb on bass is usually a recipe for mush.

if the guitars are using a bunch of verb, it might be best to keep it off the bass; yeah i know, "what fun is that?", but it might be better for the overall live sound.

same with delay, unless you're using it for specific, obvious effects.
 
#14
walterw said:
that could be the issue; reverb on bass is usually a recipe for mush.

if the guitars are using a bunch of verb, it might be best to keep it off the bass; yeah i know, "what fun is that?", but it might be better for the overall live sound.

same with delay, unless you're using it for specific, obvious effects.
Click to expand...

Yea I'm actually only using the reverb and delay for textural swell effects, not with my regular playing, I definitely couldn't cut through with those on especially since I play with my fingers.
 
#15
As an update to this dilemma, I recently met a local guy who does custom pickups for really cheap. He says he can make a J or P style pickup for my Spector and the price he quoted me is so cheap I'm considering it because even if I don't like the results it won't be much of an investment.

Anyone think this might help? I'm worried that other factors, like the wood, bridge, preamp, etc. might also have mean the difference between the way the J bass sounded and the way my Spector sounds in a full band mix. I love my Spector and don't want to sell it but in this particular band I need to find a better tone. Might it help to swap my preamp? I prefer passive sounds to active anyway. If it helps I found that the Fender I played was ash body with stock pickups and the Leoquann Badass 2 bridge, Mexican made I think.
 
#16
Silas Stingy said:
Sounds like the guitarists have too much low end, I have been in this situation many times myself and I have to say that no amount of eq will get you where you want to be. Ask the guitarists to roll off the lows. If you are playing through decent PA system with subs then high pass everything accordingly, tom toms can really mess with the bass frequencies also, if this can't be achieved then I recommend using the Entwistle setting on your amp, tread on the guitarists turf.
Click to expand...

What is the "Entwistle setting"?
 

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