D.I. / Speaker Sim / Tube Drive / Confusion

[Ψ-LOG]

Hello TB folks!

If you don't mind wrapping your head around this setup for a minute:

Jazz Bass -> EBS MultiComp -> Ashdown ABM 500 EVO III -> Cab(s) (Ashdown ABM 410H)

The amp settings are:
Flat: Engaged
Gain: 3
ValveDrive: 10:30
EQ: A mild bump for bass and mids and a tad less at 180 hz and 1.3 Khz, treble flat.
Compressor on the head is disengaged.

Now, I was wondering two things. First, is it wise to use the D.I. out with that valve drive? I've read that people had issues when using overdrive on D.I. signals or is that only relevant to full on distortion?

The other thing is, is it fine just to use the head's D.I. or do I "need" some kind of speaker simulation going on? I would like to use the head's D.I. because it's got the Valve Drive and E.Q. built in.

I'm fairly new to playing live, not new to playing bass though but I have no way to actually hear my D.I. signal at home so forgive my lack of knowledge on this topic.

I would love to hear some thoughts on how you would use that gear and/or if I'm missing something.
I play rock music and I like that nice and thick tone with the slight top end brittle going on.

 

[SandCBass]

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe if you use the button for pre/post, and set it to pre, that you would get a non distorted signal as it would be coming from before the eq and valve drive section. AFAIK
I have used the DI on that very head, and had it set to post and had great results with this
Flat: Engaged
Bass: 12:00
Mid: 3:00
Treble: 1:00
ValveDrive: 1:00
no compressor or sub harmonizer.

With those settings and my p-bass with Seymour Duncan spb-2 hot pickups it sounded great and wasn't too muddy.
I sometimes send a DI feed out of my sansamp programmable BDDI for clean warmth, and then distort my amp with a fuzz or the tube drive for stage sound.

Sorry for being lengthy, but in the end with your settings should be just fine, and since you don't have the treble bumped too high you should be fine.

 

[Ψ-LOG]

I see you have your tube in quite a bit more than I do, now this somewhat relates to the input setting to but it actually makes me feel a bit more comfy now. I think the ValveDrive is on the Pre EQ Di, too though as it is part of the split SS/Tube Preamp section - Right before the EQ.

 

[jimfist]

use cabinet emulation off of a direct out (1/4") from your ashdown head. You really need to audition these in context to see what they sound like in a typical PA system, or be set up at home for performance level auditioning of the sound via full range (PA) speakers. It looks like you're not set up for that, so this really limits your options if you'd like to have a strong opinion about what your bass sounds like out front in the PA.

Choices in cabinet emulation (or tone "treatment") range from simple, like the Hughes Kettner Red Box, to the industry standard choices like the SansAmp BDDI or REDDI, to more elegant solutions like the 2 Notes Torpedo C.A.B., or other high end cabinet emulators. Again, whether any of these solutions works for you is a subjective thing. The easiest solution is to slap a mic in front of your cabinet, but that's a whole other topic altogether, and you may not always be indulged by the sound tech staff if they prefer a direct feed.

How much money do you want to spend?

 

[Ψ-LOG]

use cabinet emulation off of a direct out (1/4") from your ashdown head. You really need to audition these in context to see what they sound like in a typical PA system, or be set up at home for performance level auditioning of the sound via full range (PA) speakers. It looks like you're not set up for that, so this really limits your options if you'd like to have a strong opinion about what your bass sounds like out front in the PA.

Choices in cabinet emulation (or tone "treatment") range from simple, like the Hughes Kettner Red Box, to the industry standard choices like the SansAmp BDDI or REDDI, to more elegant solutions like the 2 Notes Torpedo C.A.B., or other high end cabinet emulators. Again, whether any of these solutions works for you is a subjective thing. The easiest solution is to slap a mic in front of your cabinet, but that's a whole other topic altogether, and you may not always be indulged by the sound tech staff if they prefer a direct feed.

How much money do you want to spend?

What is the difference in sound between the XLR out and the line out jack? I think I need to find a way to listen in to all these but how do I do that again?

I've heard of the Sansamp things, I was only wondering because it is a pedal and it goes in front of your amp (too), why would you want a cab sim to go all the way through your amp? That doesn't seem to make much sense, does it? Or does the cab sim only work on the D.I. out of the pedal?

I'm not about money, I want a decent unit that is simple to handle but it doesn't have to go all the way to the boutique custom solution either.

I've heard someone play through a REDDI once (that I know of), it sounded really good. Does that have a cab sim built in or doesn't it need one? You see I don't even know WHY I would need one, I just keep reading about it

 

[SandCBass]

There is also the Tech 21 VT Bass V2 with a cab sim button on it, meant to sound like an old SVT rig.
I ran that route for a while, and was very pleased with it for it not breaking the bank.

 

[jimfist]

What is the difference in sound between the XLR out and the line out jack?

XLR off of a head is usually designed for interfacing with a mixing console (mic level), while 1/4" out is usually a "line level" output, to be interfaced with other line level devices, such as a rack compressor or effect unit. That said, sometimes the XLR output can still provide a very high output "hot" signal, FWIW. YMMV. (edit: sonically, there should be no difference, to answer your question)

I've heard of the Sansamp things, I was only wondering because it is a pedal and it goes in front of your amp (too), why would you want a cab sim to go all the way through your amp? That doesn't seem to make much sense, does it? Or does the cab sim only work on the D.I. out of the pedal?

That's the point: you DON'T typically want any emulation running into your traditional bass rig. However, the SansAmp has an un-effected DRY output (no distortion, EQ, or cabinet emulation) designed to be sent to your rig while the affected WET output (that has the tone shaping) goes via XLR output from the Sans Amp to the PA. Problem is that what you're hearing on stage may be radically different than what the PA system is getting. Thus you should audition the SansAmp's WET tone, and play with it so you get a sound that is something that you like, or is close to your stage rig's tone if possible. You really need a critical listening environment to do this, or extended sound check time to try it out. The SansAmp is a great unit, and they make a few flavors of it now, but they definitely have their own type of tone going on.

If you have your own regular sound crew, a great way to implement the Sans Amp is at the sound board as an insert to your bass channel, with your bass channel being fed from the direct out from your head. This way, the sound mixer gets the goodies from your head's preamp, and can blend in the SansAmp to take advantage of the cabinet simulation characteristics. (Personally, I'd prefer a true cabinet emulator for this task as IMHO the SansAmp BDDI is more geared to emulating the whole enchilada of an SVT type rig. The 2 Notes Torpedo C.A.B., for example.)

I've heard someone play through a REDDI once (that I know of), it sounded really good. Does that have a cab sim built in or doesn't it need one?

The REDDI is a top quality pro tube direct box. It is more "coloration" than true cabinet simulation, and is favored by a lot of bass players. I'm not sure if it is better suited to one genre or another. I've never owned one. By comparison, the Sans Amp has a long track record of use among rock players, and pretty much owned the "SVT emulation" direct box market for a long, long time. I've owned two of them, but modern modeling has caught up these days IMO, and can do more things just as well or better in many cases.

 

[Ψ-LOG]

Thank you, that was informative. I'm really not so much of a tech geek and I don't happen to have a PA system at home either so every bit of insight is really helpful ;-)

I've listened to some Sansamp BDDI and VT Bass Samples and I think I don't like this stuff, it doesn't sound like real warmth to me. The Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B however seems to be interesting because I can feed it with my amp's line out and even listen in with headphones to match the sound to my own cabs and then refine it during rehearsal. Sounds more like my thing!