D Lakin vs Fender P

[mccartneyman]

It's going to be a bit hard to get a review of a Lakin bass here on TB because, due to Dan's "ambassador program," which lets users earn $100 (up to $600) toward a new Lakin for every bass recommendation that leads to a sale, TB mavens have banned reviews of the Lakins. As for Ed Friedland's review, you have to ask yourself if someone in Ed's position -- that is, a high profile reviewer -- can really be swayed into endorsing a bass he doesn't like just by wagging the potential for $600 off his next purchase in front of him. I don't recall anyone accusing of Ed shilling for Lakland or Genz-Benz or any of the other products he gives good reviews to. My advice on any product is, try before you decide whether something is well made.

 

[basspraiser]

So, you're saying that a cosmetic inlay & painted headstock is what sets them apart? Really? That's all aesthetics. How about someone goes into what really matters? QUALITY!

I have played several from batch #1 and they are quality instruments.....and pleasing to the eye....double good....and I could care less about the Ambassador program....I will buy one...even without an "enticement"....playing them, getting the color I want and the quality enticed me enough.

 

[Slpbass81]

I would go American made Fender all the way. As for D. Lakin, any company that is willing to cheapen their brand by encouraging their customers to go into chat boards and talk others into buying their instruments so they can get a discount will not get my business. Fender has been there from the beginning and will always be in everyones arsenal.

 

[basspraiser]

I would go American made Fender all the way. As for D. Lakin, any company that is willing to cheapen their brand by encouraging their customers to go into chat boards and talk others into buying their instruments so they can get a discount will not get my business. Fender has been there from the beginning and will always be in everyones arsenal.

JUST TO CLARIFY....the Ambassador program is NOT directed to TB....it is open to anyone who recommends a buyer....regardless of where they come from.

This is not "bad marketing" IMHO...there have always been discounts and bonuses to buy something (all the way back to G&H Green stamps!)...sheesh.

as for "Fender....will always be in everyones arsenal" I KNOW plenty of bass players that do not own any Fender instruments....so....

 

[Iridescentone]

JUST TO CLARIFY....the Ambassador program is NOT directed to TB....it is open to anyone who recommends a buyer....regardless of where they come from.

This is not "bad marketing" IMHO...there have always been discounts and bonuses to buy something (all the way back to G&H Green stamps!)...sheesh.

That Ambassador program is not directed to (sic) TB now, because it's been officially discouraged by TB admins for over a month, in the interest of negating the blatant shilling that was going on around here. D. Lakin Basses and the Ambassador Program | TalkBass.com

In retrospect, it's obvious to me that some of the early "rave" posts about Lakin basses on this forum were from individuals participating in said program. It smelled kinda fishy then, but it all made sense once the Ambassador program was exposed. To me, this comes off as a bit unsavory, as most readers were completely unaware of the program.

(btw, it was "S"&H Green stamps, not "G"&H)

 

[MoonQuake]

Great and relevant excerpt from a Bass Player magazine interview with Dan

Lakin makes no attempt to change the basic framework of these classic instruments. Instead, he has focused on upgrading details that often hold back imported instruments. D. Lakin Basses feature U.S. Hipshot-supplied hardware, oil-finished necks, spoke-wheel trussrod adjusters, and 5mm-thick fingerboards that extend past the bone nut. “Kuffner introduced me to a pickup maker, but not just any pickup maker, the world’s largest. After four or five prototypes, I’ve finally got both J and P pickups I truly love. I was introduced to a factory in Korea called Mirr Music, basically a custom shop for hire. I sent them two samples and a video describing what I wanted. In a nutshell, I wanted a USA Lakland made in Korea!”

Now wether or not he's able to achieve this remains to be proven and/or verified by players who've had experience with both products but if he succeeded to do so, I'm now more eager than I was to lay my hands on the Bob Glaub I ordered.

 

[Iridescentone]

I'm confident the Lakin's will be very nice basses. Not that I'd put much (if any) stock in anything written in a Bass Player magazine review, though. Call me cynical.

As for pickups, the fact that they're made by the world's largest maker means little to me. Could be great, maybe not. I found the after-market pickups in the old Laklands a very appealing feature....... Fralin, Aero, Kent Armstrong, Bartolini, Basslines, even Darkstars, (did I miss any?).

 

[JimmyM]

JUST TO CLARIFY....the Ambassador program is NOT directed to TB....it is open to anyone who recommends a buyer....regardless of where they come from.

This is not "bad marketing" IMHO...there have always been discounts and bonuses to buy something (all the way back to G&H Green stamps!)...sheesh.

S&H Green Stamps

Anyway, it's not entirely directed at TB but TB is specifically mentioned as a place he'd like to see his basses being talked about, so it's sort of directed that way. Fine by me...they want to offer a rewards program? That's cool. But you have to buy one first, so for me it loses some appeal as I have enough basses already and don't have much interest in buying another one unless it's a super deal I can't live without, and while they're very nice basses, I'm sure, they're not a super enough deal. Besides, I put zero effort into getting the endorsements I have/had, and I like it that way. And now that TB will be pretty much a closed avenue or at best a very limited avenue for their Ambassador program, hocking my friends in chinek would be all I have left and that's too much like work

 

[Slpbass81]

JUST TO CLARIFY....the Ambassador program is NOT directed to TB....it is open to anyone who recommends a buyer....regardless of where they come from.

This is not "bad marketing" IMHO...there have always been discounts and bonuses to buy something (all the way back to G&H Green stamps!)...sheesh.

as for "Fender....will always be in everyones arsenal" I KNOW plenty of bass players that do not own any Fender instruments....so....

I'm not going to get into an argument over your comment. Of course not every bass player out there will not own a Fender but majority will and most will know where I am going with that comment.

As for D.Lakin directed at Talkbass, please read what is directly on their website page:

"3rd step – talk about us !

Spread the word! Email me with a link to show me what you are saying. Peer to peer marketing is just about the strongest sand most effective marketing tool available. Talk about your bass. Both on social media and blog sites such as talkbass.com"

 

[jg42]

I have only heard good things about the Lakin basses, i really like what I hear on Friedland's review. I currently have a Fender J that sounds great but I needed to put around $400 extra, I hope a Lakin shows in the classified section soon.

I hate Ed for that! I really do! I want to get every bass that he showcases!

 

[chris_b]

My beef with the D Lakin basses is that they're all outsourced for components & construction. He may do a final inspection & setup (I'm not clear on this)

There are many high quality "parts" products built, from cars and computers to musical instruments. Outsourcing the manufacture of components is a standard process in all businesses. Even NASA does it

Fender are "parts" basses. The difference is they get their parts from another place in the same factory. In my experience an outside supplier will work harder and giver better quality because if you are not satisfied with their work you can go elsewhere. If you are forced to buy internally (as Fender is) then they don't have any incentive to go the extra mile.

Sadowsky, Lull and Lakland are all high quality basses and they are "parts" basses. I would bet on their "quality" against any major manufacturer every time.

 

[hsech]

The Fender is worth more because it's a Fender.

 

[SteveHeissner]

No one else but Carvin is gonna get close to these options for this price...and I dig the Lakin headstock.

+1 Amen brother.

 

[Johnny Alien]

This is an interesting topic to me. I would like to note, first, that I am a huge Lakland fan and was an endorser for years when Dan was on board there. That said I don't have any interest in buying a Lakin bass and am not a huge fan of the things he has been doing lately. I have often been critical of the Skyline series for being too expensive compared to the competition. I still think that is 100% true. They are made at the Cort factory alongside budget models like the Tribute series that sell for a fraction of their cost. They are great basses but since leaving Korea are not direct competition for basses like US Fenders of which they compete pretty directly by price. But thinking that those basses are overpriced does not make me automatically assume ALL import basses should be at that price. Most of the time a company will go overseas in the attempt to hit a specific lower price point. What is happening here is completely different in that Dan didn't look at the price at all...he just asked them to make a bass spec'd like a US Lakland and then priced it based on what they could make that level of quality for. It's not like taking a $1200 US Fender and making it overseas it's like taking a $3600-$4000 custom shop Fender and making it overseas. It's very similar to what Sadowsky did with the Metro line except more people are willing to put faith in Japan quality vs Korean. These are being made at the Mirr factory which is the same factory that makes the Duesenberg guitars (at least the bodies and necks and such) and they sell for close to (and over) $3000. They are also the same factory that makes Reverend guitars and basses. There are a few Reverend basses that are around the $1000 mark and that is with zero US hardware or special neck finish. Does that mean that I think the price is totally justified? I am not sure......I never played one. If it really hits US Lakland playability then it's probably worth it. But I do think it should come with a case for that price. By the time you get a case you are in the realm of a used US Lakland. To come with a case would be a huge plus for him.

Again...I am not interested in buying one and am not participating in any "Ambassador" program.

 

[sigmafloyd]

FWIW the number one thing that would make me consider a Lakin is the color choice. I would love a daphne blue Jazz. The fender av Jazz in DB is my current dream bass but it is so darn expensive.

The lakins tick a lot of the boxes but they just leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. I disagree with everyone saying you can't comment on a bass without seeing or playing it. That might be true for fit and finish and sound, but in terms of biz practices I think it's fine. What rubs me the wrong way is that there is zero innovation here. I don't know what is worse, how much he is ripping off fender or how much he is ripping off lakland. That seems dishonest to me and not entrepreneurial at all. Say what you will about Fender being a corporate giant, at least my money goes to keeping a company that employs a lot of hardworking Americans afloat.

 

[basspraiser]

Sigmafloyd:

Dan is working on some more "innovative" basses but felt the best way to raise the money for the prototyping etc was to focus on "bread and butter" basses which are more " accepted" by the masses ...

Right or wrong...that was his thought process.

 

[StuartV]

FWIW the number one thing that would make me consider a Lakin is the color choice. I would love a daphne blue Jazz. The fender av Jazz in DB is my current dream bass but it is so darn expensive.

The lakins tick a lot of the boxes but they just leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. I disagree with everyone saying you can't comment on a bass without seeing or playing it. That might be true for fit and finish and sound, but in terms of biz practices I think it's fine. What rubs me the wrong way is that there is zero innovation here. I don't know what is worse, how much he is ripping off fender or how much he is ripping off lakland. That seems dishonest to me and not entrepreneurial at all. Say what you will about Fender being a corporate giant, at least my money goes to keeping a company that employs a lot of hardworking Americans afloat.

Personally, I LIKE the idea of a company selling the "same" product with as good or better quality, or offering more consumer choices, for the same money or less. Your stated approach is the opposite and discourages competition which benefits the consumer. Your approach is why I consider Fender to be the Harley-Davidson of the bass world. Brand loyalists being willing to pay higher prices for products that are antiquated in their designs and technology, simply for the brand name on the label.

 

[sigmafloyd]

I consider Fender to be the Harley-Davidson of the bass world. Brand loyalists being willing to pay higher prices for products that are antiquated in their designs and technology, simply for the brand name on the label.

Good point, Fender really should realize how antiquated P and J basses are. What's worse is Steinway selling Pianos, have they not seen this?

 

[StuartV]

Good point, Fender really should realize how antiquated P and J basses are. What's worse is Steinway selling Pianos, have they not seen this?

Well, that is patently ridiculous. Unless you're one of those people who insist that a P or J made by any other company than Fender cannot possibly provide the same sound as a P or J made by Fender. In that case, we have nothing to discuss.

For the rational people among us, I never said that the antiquated designs and tech don't have a place in the bass world. I play an Ampeg B-15 and an early 70s SVT, for cryin' out loud! What I said is that I like to see a company make the same design and tech better and cheaper. That's good for me and everyone else - except Fender and Fender Fan Boys.

It's not like D Lakin (or anyone else) is ripping off Leo. Leo sold Fender in '65. Nobody there now had any part of the vision or genius that produced the P or J in the first place. They are copying his designs just as much as D Lakin is. Moreso, technically. They just paid Leo for the right to keep his name on what they're making.

 

[Val Tremola]

Personally, I'm looking forward to receiving my D. Lakin bass that I just bought here on TB. Hope it gets here by gig-time Saturday. I've owned and played 2 dozen Laklands, all USA but one. They ranged from above average to magical. I have great respect for Lakin!!