Double Bass D.O.A (TBDB?)

[PaulCannon]

Cool story, bro.

 

[MR PC]

He beckoned.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Well, that's certainly the truth. To hang with the chosen few here you must concur with certain unwritten rules, do some PM schmoozing, and support and endorse an elite group mind. Sort of like joining a church.

Let me be more clear: this is pretty much the textbook definition of trolling. You need to stop doing this if you wish to continue to participate in these forums.

I didn't receive any infraction here, which would have been in order for that kind of comment....

Contrary to what some people may believe, moderators do not enjoy giving infractions, and most avoid it if they think they can curb an undesirable behavior by other means. Often, when a thread gets out of hand, rather than infract everyone who had a hand in the downhill trajectory, they will decide to either simply close or soft delete a thread. Other times, when it's a clear case of an agenda against a particular member or group of members in general, infractions may be used to help keep track of the number of offenses by a given member.

Another common myth is that moderators ban members. 99% of the time, this is not the case. The system has a predetermined allotment of infraction points that triggers bans. Moderators are instructed to simply give infractions when needed and let the system take care of the recordkeeping.

 

[MR PC]

Well, that's certainly the truth. To hang with the chosen few here you must concur with certain unwritten rules, do some PM schmoozing, and support and endorse an elite group mind. Sort of like joining a church.

Let me be more clear: this is pretty much the textbook definition of trolling. You need to stop doing this if you wish to continue to participate in these forums.

Got it.

 

[Paul Warburton]

.

 

[Treyzer]

Just got home from one of my steady gigs and noticed this thread. It has been illuminating to say the least. I'd like to start by saying that I think Troy has done a great service for this TBDB site. I'd also like to say that Mr. PC has been on my ignore list for quite some time based on his many posts that have often been unpleasant and, in my view, very often full of vitriol. I'm glad all this info is coming out into the open.

PC let me be the first to say that as far as I'm concerned, there have been no secret handshakes, PM's or other "skull & bones" devices that have led me to become friends with people you seem to regard as the "chosen ones". When I first entered this site, I showed respect, didn't come off like a "know it all" and acted like I would act in real life! It was pretty simple. It is true that I actually have a certain amount of cred as a musician based on what I was lucky enough to accomplish. However, I've never flaunted those things or believed that the gigs, tours and recordings I did made me any better, or more special than anyone else.

I'd also like to say that there are some great, and very talented bassists/people who contribute here. (I'm NOT Including Myself, although I started on double bass, most of my career was with the Electric Bass).

I've met a number of these great bassists in my travels. I don't think anyone wants, or likes to be goaded, needled and/or argued with. At least for me, basic civility, and what we used to called manners, would be a good way for all of us to conduct ourselves in life as well as on this site. It would seem that a simple "thank you", or a good faith attempt to show respect to those who have done something in the musical world, as well as honor the dues that they've paid, might go a long way to further some "good will" and allow us to continue with what should be a great internet site where people can hang out, interact and learn quite a lot about all things regarding the double bass. Respectfully, Trey Thompson

 

[sean_on_bass]

Slab might be one thing but double bass is very much an art better left taught in person. "Get a teacher" is a refrain that has a lot of wisdom behind it. It's no different than asking for a medical diagnosis for an stomach ache and is useless unless you are there in person. Similarly, in some situations, giving the wrong diagnosis can actually hurt the person in question, though bass playing prob wont' kill you.

I think people have gotten a little too used to the internet world. That everything and all the answers can be easily attained by googling or posing questions on a forum. Some things simply can't be answered textually or even verbally. They can only be experienced. But this is a reality that many people struggle to accept. They think just because they taught themselves how to play EB, that the same recipe can be applied to DB. This is a fallacy.

In that regard, it's certainly possible to get advice should one give the adequate set of info. Like posting a video or an audio clip of ones playing.

Also countless are the number of times people come back to forum only to admit that they were wrong and a teacher was the right call. Those that give positive responses about teachers in hindsight far outnumber those who were able to self-teach.

I participate in another form that is skiing related and it suffers from the same situation. Actually, it's even more insufferable since there are many different ways to ski down the same slope and everybody has a different body mechanic.

Double Bass is not simple. You dont' just your fingers in the right places and pull the strings. If it were, we would not be having this discussion. Or maybe it is simple, but it's a case where simple isn't easy, as they say.

Hey, i don't doubt the worth of a good teacher at all. Hopefully i am not coming across that way. I agree, a teacher is generally the most efficient and painless way to get going on the instrument. I am just questioning the way this fact is introduced to new users and folks with questions about playing the double bass.

Double bass is not simple, hell BG is not all that simple to a beginner either.

 

[TroyK]

Hey, i don't doubt the worth of a good teacher at all. ... I am just questioning the way this fact is introduced to new users and folks with questions about playing the double bass.

...

I think there's a good point there. We should find a balance of a welcoming, supportive tone, managing content and staying out of the way of harmless internet banter.

I'd say the rule, rather than the exception, here is that people try to be helpful and make it a good place to hang. Good help doesn't always feel like good help to someone who isn't open to the complexities of what they're getting into yet, but it would be great to find a new and constructive way to balance that.

Speaking of the exceptions to that rule, I'm glad we have a nice illustration of them too on the "D.O.A." thread, because is a major part of the equation. It's a small community and if a few people decide to show up and poke sticks at it every day, it's not as fun for anyone, the quality of the discourse declines over time and people drift away.

In contrast to some others, I am not an elite, heavy player with a long list of accomplishments. I happen to have 3 gigs with 3 different bands in Seattle and Tacoma this week, but only one other for the rest of the month. So it goes. I'm just a local guy who isn't as good as I would like to be or plan to be. I can't/don't make a living playing and still have to balance trying to get better with holding down a job, trying to be a good family man and a whole bunch of other stuff that adds up to "normal life", but keeps me busy and distracted, like most people.

TBDB people on-line and in-person have been great to me, supportive, helpful, encouraging and not because I know the password or am some kind of elite player, but because they are a nice group of people and I've treated them with basic, human respect. There is no conspiracy, only human interaction.

I'm the poster-child for an average player without a pure DB pedigree being welcomed into this community. It is an open community, but does matter how you chose to participate in it and like learning to play doublebass, can take some time.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

TBDB people on-line and in-person have been great to me, supportive, helpful, encouraging and not because I know the password or am some kind of elite player, but because they are a nice group of people and I've treated them with basic, human respect. There is no conspiracy, only human interaction.

+1

I'm the poster-child for an average player without a pure DB pedigree being welcomed into this community.

Me too. I knew next to nothing about the DB when I joined back in 2000, and the people around here then were welcoming, forthcoming, and honest. Sometimes they were more honest than I was ready to acknowledge, but since I heard things in their playing that I wanted for myself and my own playing, I tried (not always successfully) to listen. Over the years this has continued to be the case, and I hope to pay some of that forward here and elsewhere.

It is an open community, but does matter how you chose to participate in it and like learning to play doublebass, can take some time.

Totally agree.

 

[oliebrice]

I've been using this forum for 11 years (just checked! didn't realise it had been quite that long), was more-or-less a beginner when I started and have now been a full-time musician for several years. The information and advice I received over the years has been hugely helpful, as well as often entertaining. The contacts are still really useful - not long ago a post on here found me a bow to borrow in New York for example (cheers Kevin!).

It is a bit sad to see it get less interesting - the ratio of experienced bassists who have something to say has definitely changed. Not really got any useful insight into why that is, just wanted to add my voice to the list of bassists who've really appreciated having this resourse...

 

[oliebrice]

reading this thread has made me go back and look at the first few pages of my using TB - as a 22 year old beginner. While most of what I wrote now makes me cringe, it's interesting to see that all my questions a) spark a conversation, and b) get well answered, with loads of useful information, while at the same time teasing me a bit and showing that there's a bit more going on than I was hearing - really helpful stuff, and a good initiation into spedning my life hanging out with jazz musicians!

 

[MR PC]

In our case, I think it's worse because DB is related to a rock instrument that a good many people teach themselves in their garages and then decide that they're one purchase or question away from ruling the world of "upright". Couple that with the fact that a lot of rock musicians decide to get into jazz, not because they love jazz or even listen to it, but because they think it proves a point of some kind about their abilities as a musician.

Paul McCartney pretty much learned to play electric bass in the "garage". And he got into Jazz too. John Clayton speaks very highly of working with him in this interview.

 

[TroyK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiejY8d4xVE

 

[Paul Warburton]

First of all, I've moved this to "Misc" because it's not about basses. Sorry, but that's why we have categories.

IMO, this Thread started out badly, as Chris' first post above denotes.
Now it's gone straight to hell, with two members ****ing with each other. Way to go, fellas.

 

[Fat Steve]

Paul McCartney pretty much learned to play electric bass in the "garage". And he got into Jazz too. John Clayton speaks very highly of working with him in this interview.

 

[TroyK]

IMO, this Thread started out badly, as Chris' first post above denotes.
Now it's gone straight to hell, with two members ****ing with each other. Way to go, fellas.

Sorry Paul, you're right. I wish that ignoring him worked, but it appears to actually have just made him stalk and snipe. Going back to the beginning of this thread to take my quote and then post the thing about Clayton and McCartney seemed so random and desperate to me that I thought my video was at least as relevant.

So, let me try responding instead. Yes, Mr. Clayton is a nice guy and I'm sure Sir Paul is too. They are both extremely accomplished in their fields and I am happy, but not surprised to hear that they extended mutual respect to one other. I don't know what that has to do with anything that we've been talking about or anything that I have ever said. It's just further evidence that he can't walk away and won't respect that I took the high road for 4 years with him.

I guy I knew once said to me:

... No one likes to feel like they are being stalked for possible humiliations in the future.

and then the next day went back through 5 pages of the TBDB D.O.A. thread to quote me and somehow suggest that John Clayton's collaboration with Paul McCartney somehow proves something about me...I still don't get it sorry. Oh yeah, it's called being an internet troll and not knowing when to stop.

Still, I don't like this either and TB would be a lot better without it. I tried ignoring, I tried confronting. Not sure what's next, maybe logging off. Yea, the troll wins!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Troy, I know how you feel because I went down the same path with him for a few years on these pages. At first, he'd take a shot a me in a post and I'd respond without using the Quote Function only to soon find that his post was deleted later, making me look crazier than I really am. This's the oldest troll trick in the book because you HAVE to quote his post for evidence of his *******-ishness.

I was reticent to even post this, because it gives more attention to an attention seeker.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Yup, people who feign respect when they get called out, only to return to their trolling ways once people stop looking in their direction. The definition of insidious.

 

[MR PC]

Delusional...desperate? LMAO..those terms are some of the oldest LGAT management tactics in the book.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I think TBDB needs a troll-rating feature like many other forums do - one that posters can see and vote on.