D Standard Club (DGCF)

[Prodigus Filius]

Garden variety set of D'addario EXL165's which ship on a lot of basses tuned to E standard compared to rotosound SH77/RS77LE set in D standard

Consider the EXL165's kind of a baseline overall tension being exerted on many bass necks from the factory.

D'addario EXL165 45-105

Gauges 45 65 85 105

E1/.105/38.10lbf
A1/.085/45.30lbf
D2/.065/48.40lbf
G2/.045/42.50lbf

TT = 174.30lbf

Rotosound SH77/RS77LE 50-110

Gauges 50 75 95 110

D1/.110/40.30lbf
G1/.095/54.59lbf
C2/.075/56.28lbf
F2/.05049.62lbf

TT = 200.79lbf

So more tension for sure above the baseline, but nothing too extreme imho

 

[MrAB4003]

After 2.5 months, I have decided to bring my MIA P Bass home from consignment. I don’t like the rounds they put on my bass, so I’m thinking about putting on some La Bella DTFs.

But I’m not sure which gauge would be best for D Standard. I’m leaning towards the mediums (49-109), but I’m also considering the 1954 Originals / Jamersons (52-110) and the standards (45-105). Which of the three gauges would everyone pick?

Or if there’s another brand that works better, please share.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

This might help you make a decision. Not my cup of tea music wise, but ymmv. Does have Pino on a 63 pbass with 54’s tuned DGCF

]

 

[MrAB4003]

This might help you make a decision. Not my cup of tea music wise, but ymmv. Does have Pino on a 63 pbass with 54’s tuned DGCF

]

D'Angelo's Voodoo album featuring Pino on bass! The low end is certainly there, which is why I'm thinking about La Bellas. But it's the tension that I'm concerned about. I'm not sure if the 1954 Originals are too tense compared to the mediums or the standards. Can you please run your amazing tension analysis comparing the three sets?

This is not my cup of tea musically either (I love hard rock and heavy metal). After playing my bass this afternoon, I'm realizing that my P Bass' sound is geared towards doom metal and some traditional metal, which have darker bass sounds than other metal subgenres. I played some thrash metal on my P Bass and it didn't work for me. I was missing notes that I wouldn't normally miss with my Ric 4003s and the highs and lows were lost in the mix.

However, I just played a Saint Vitus song that was originally recorded on a Gibson Thunderbird and my bass just sounded better in that doom metal mix. I'm missing the strong low end and the singing highs that flats can give me. My bass has D'Addario XL Nickels (my preferred roundwounds), which are great strings. But I feel a darker flat would work better.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

D'Angelo's Voodoo album featuring Pino on bass! The low end is certainly there, which is why I'm thinking about La Bellas. But it's the tension that I'm concerned about. I'm not sure if the 1954 Originals are too tense compared to the mediums or the standards. Can you please run your amazing tension analysis comparing the three sets?

This is not my cup of tea musically either (I love hard rock and heavy metal). After playing my bass this afternoon, I'm realizing that my P Bass' sound is geared towards doom metal and some traditional metal, which have darker bass sounds than other metal subgenres. I played some thrash metal on my P Bass and it didn't work for me. I was missing notes that I wouldn't normally miss with my Ric 4003s and the highs and lows were lost in the mix.

However, I just played a Saint Vitus song that was originally recorded on a Gibson Thunderbird and my bass just sounded better in that doom metal mix. I'm missing the strong low end and the singing highs that flats can give me. My bass has D'Addario XL Nickels (my preferred roundwounds), which are great strings. But I feel a darker flat would work better.

Lol @ ‘amazing tension analysis’
La Bella doesn’t publish tension data for the DTF flats. The 54’s are stiffer of course than the 49-109’s but the tensions would be similar, and either one would have more tension than the 45-105 set.
I no longer have a cut up section of La Bella 110 to more accurately weigh it than I did the first time. The scales werent good then I don’t think, as the unit weight was akin to a Chrome 100, but the 110 is more tense than that as I have used both.
Anyhow if the 1954’s are in the Chromes 50 75 95 110 ballpark of tension, than in DGCF tuning the tensions would be similar to XL rounds 45 65 85 105 tuned E standard.

 

[MrAB4003]

Anyhow if the 1954’s are in the Chromes 50 75 95 110 ballpark of tension, than in DGCF tuning the tensions would be similar to XL rounds 45 65 85 105 tuned E standard.

That comparison really helps! Thank you so much! I think the 49-109s are the right tension for me. Plus, I like how the blue silks go with my bass' finish.

Have you thought of trying a high tension/stiff set of flats like Rotosound 77 jazz flats 5 iver set tuned down to ADGCF. The 130 tuned to A0 still has as much tension as a 145 plain vanilla nickel round wound tuned to A

Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats

ADCCF tuning
Gauges 45 65 85 105 130

A0/.130/32.77lbf
D1/.105/35.47lbf
G1/.085/42.52lbf
C2/.065/46.56lbf
F2/.045/45.60lbf

TT=202.92lbf

However, the 4 string version (45-105) of these are also a consideration for me. I had them on my old Jazz Bass in the past for 7 years before taking them off. I gave my P Bass a second chance, so it's fitting that I would give Roto 77s a second chance too.

The total tension without the A0 string is 170.15 pounds/foot. That's a tiny bit more than my 50-105 Chromes on my Ric 4003, so I'm confident that they will work.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

i was reading this interesting article on whether to downtune below E.And thought of it when you mentioned one of the most influential bands in Doom stuff.
This is from the article’

“”In my opinion even an electric guitar played by a skilled shredder is sounding slow compared to a highly skilled violin-player and the reason is, that the violin plays within a higher region than the guitar. A higher pitch corresponds better to faster tempos, because the wave of a higher pitch is also faster. In fact many fast Metal-records use standard or Eb tuning while Low tunings are used by bands, which are playing mostly mid-tempo or slow. Looking back on “Master of reality” by Black Sabbath no song on this record is fast. The lower tuning supports the doomy, weighty atmosphere like a slow, merciless mealstream. On the other hand a low tuning will not support a hectic, aggressive and restless atmosphere. If we transfer this observation to our topic, tuning down for Metal, we could follow this strategy:

• Standard tuning for fast songs
• Low tunings for slow songs””

Interesting ob about a fast violinist outshreddijg a guitar shredder due to higher regions played in.Higher pitches and therefore less excursion of the waveform.
The greater string excursion of less tense, downtuned strings better for slower tempo playing because the greater string excursion is not optimal for very fast playing.
Article here

 

[MrAB4003]

i was reading this interesting article on whether to downtune below E.And thought of it when you mentioned one of the most influential bands in Doom stuff.
This is from the article’

“”In my opinion even an electric guitar played by a skilled shredder is sounding slow compared to a highly skilled violin-player and the reason is, that the violin plays within a higher region than the guitar. A higher pitch corresponds better to faster tempos, because the wave of a higher pitch is also faster. In fact many fast Metal-records use standard or Eb tuning while Low tunings are used by bands, which are playing mostly mid-tempo or slow. Looking back on “Master of reality” by Black Sabbath no song on this record is fast. The lower tuning supports the doomy, weighty atmosphere like a slow, merciless mealstream. On the other hand a low tuning will not support a hectic, aggressive and restless atmosphere. If we transfer this observation to our topic, tuning down for Metal, we could follow this strategy:

• Standard tuning for fast songs
• Low tunings for slow songs””

Interesting ob about a fast violinist outshreddijg a guitar shredder due to higher regions ( i take it he means higher pitches and therefore less excursion of the waveform) played.
The greater string excursion of less tense, downtuned strings better for slower tempo playing of which I am a fan of.
Article here

I 100% agree with this! I love thrash, doom, and traditional heavy metal as crazy as that sounds! Tuning to D Standard is a happy medium for me as someone who loves all three. It's right in the middle of standard tuning and B Standard, which is a huge advantage. I can switch between subgenres while practicing or writing new music without retuning or worrying.

Black Sabbath were the first two downtune in metal because of Tony Iommi's fingers. It worked for them and many others in doom metal. Some bands like Saint Vitus and Candlemass either stay in standard or in Eb and they sound heavy. But others, like Sleep, tune down to C or lower for an even more heavy sound.

Conversely, most traditional and thrash metal bands tune to either:
1. Standard (e.g. Anthrax, Overkill, Iron Maiden, UFO, Metallica in the studio, Megadeth before 2013, and Exodus)
2. Eb Standard (e.g. Motorhead, Slayer, Nuclear Assault, Armored Saint, Metallica live, and Evile)
or 3. D Standard (e.g. Megadeth after 2013).

Those bands never really thought to tune down that far, if at all. But the higher tunings make that type of music more aggressive.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I 100% agree with this! I love thrash, doom, and traditional heavy metal as crazy as that sounds! Tuning to D Standard is a happy medium for me as someone who loves all three. It's right in the middle of standard tuning and B Standard, which is a huge advantage. I can switch between subgenres while practicing or writing new music without retuning or worrying.

Black Sabbath were the first two downtune in metal because of Tony Iommi's fingers. It worked for them and many others in doom metal. Some bands like Saint Vitus and Candlemass either stay in standard or in Eb and they sound heavy. But others, like Sleep, tune down to C or lower for an even more heavy sound.

Conversely, most traditional and thrash metal bands tune to either:
1. Standard (e.g. Anthrax, Overkill, Iron Maiden, UFO, Metallica in the studio, Megadeth before 2013, and Exodus)
2. Eb Standard (e.g. Motorhead, Slayer, Nuclear Assault, Armored Saint, Metallica live, and Evile)
or 3. D Standard (e.g. Megadeth after 2013).

Those bands never really thought to tune down that far, if at all. But the higher tunings make that type of music more aggressive.

Nice post.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

These are the tensions of XL Chromes that are closest in gauge to the La Bella 1954’s gauges.
I have put the 1954’s on a bass I had Chromes 50 75 95 110 on tuned BEAD and didn’t have to tighten the rod at all. So that pretty much says the tensions are similar.

XL Chromes in D standard

D1/.110/34.20lbf
G1/.095/51.19lbf
C2/.075/56.98lbf
F2/.050/46.11lbf

TT = 188.48lbf


Compare to vanilla gauged XL Nickel Rounds in E Standard

XL Nickel Rounds

Gauges 45 65 85 105

E1/.105/38.10lbf
A1/.085/45.30lb
D2/.065/48.40lbf
G2/.045/42.50lbf

TT = 174.30lbf

 

[Zazie Moondust]

I 100% agree with this! I love thrash, doom, and traditional heavy metal as crazy as that sounds! Tuning to D Standard is a happy medium for me as someone who loves all three. It's right in the middle of standard tuning and B Standard, which is a huge advantage. I can switch between subgenres while practicing or writing new music without retuning or worrying.

Black Sabbath were the first two downtune in metal because of Tony Iommi's fingers. It worked for them and many others in doom metal. Some bands like Saint Vitus and Candlemass either stay in standard or in Eb and they sound heavy. But others, like Sleep, tune down to C or lower for an even more heavy sound.

Conversely, most traditional and thrash metal bands tune to either:
1. Standard (e.g. Anthrax, Overkill, Iron Maiden, UFO, Metallica in the studio, Megadeth before 2013, and Exodus)
2. Eb Standard (e.g. Motorhead, Slayer, Nuclear Assault, Armored Saint, Metallica live, and Evile)
or 3. D Standard (e.g. Megadeth after 2013).

Those bands never really thought to tune down that far, if at all. But the higher tunings make that type of music more aggressive.

For metal music I consider D standard to just be the standard tuning of that genre. Bands in all subgenres have tuned to it, from power to doom, to death to black, etc. and its great for learning songs other bands wrote because it's only a semitone or two away from most tunings so it doesn't sound too weird when transposing. (Provided you aren't just capping)

But also worth mentioning Venom tuned to C# as did quite a few other bands influenced by them. Historically seemed to be the lowest most non grindcore bands would go back in the 80s. I consider it another sweet spot, for when you like D but want something slightly messier and nastier. (I prefer to drop c# if I am going that low though)

C standard is just a bit too muddy and B is even moreso.

 

[MrAB4003]

That comparison really helps! Thank you so much! I think the 49-109s are the right tension for me. Plus, I like how the blue silks go with my bass' finish.

However, the 4 string version (45-105) of these are also a consideration for me. I had them on my old Jazz Bass in the past for 7 years before taking them off. I gave my P Bass a second chance, so it's fitting that I would give Roto 77s a second chance too.

The total tension without the A0 string is 170.15 pounds/foot. That's a tiny bit more than my 50-105 Chromes on my Ric 4003, so I'm confident that they will work.

Update - I decided to give the Rotosound 77s a second chance. They were at my local GC while there were no La Bellas in the whole store.

I think the tones of the La Bellas are too dark and one dimensional for the music I play. There was a video on another thread that showed that darkness and narrow tonal spectrum of a P Bass with La Bellas. That swayed me away from them because I don’t want to sound like James Jamerson (RIP).

 

[Prodigus Filius]

The SH77 set or the RS77LE?

 

[MrAB4003]

The SH77 set or the RS77LE?

Neither - I got the RS77LDs (45-105 standard gauge). They feel great in D Standard in terms of tension! As with Rotosound everything, they are rougher feeling and more grippy than other flats (e.g. Chromes). But I don't mind having played rounds for so many years. They're also lower output than Chromes, which is understandable because they're made of monel.

I strung up my bass this afternoon tried them out with all the metal subgenres that I mentioned upthread. They sounded great everywhere - definitely an upgrade from the D'Addario XL Nickels that were on before. I was really impressed when I was playing Iron Maiden today. I NAILED the Steve Harris tone! I also liked how they have a wider tonal spectrum than the La Bellas. They just work better for the types of music I play.

I know they will mellow out in the near future and I'm curious how they will do so. The Chromes on my Ric 4003 sound amazing now that the 6 month mark has passed.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Neither - I got the RS77LDs (45-105 standard gauge). They feel great in D Standard in terms of tension! As with Rotosound everything, they are rougher feeling and more grippy than other flats (e.g. Chromes). But I don't mind having played rounds for so many years. They're also lower output than Chromes, which is understandable because they're made of monel.

I strung up my bass this afternoon tried them out with all the metal subgenres that I mentioned upthread. They sounded great everywhere - definitely an upgrade from the D'Addario XL Nickels that were on before. I was really impressed when I was playing Iron Maiden today. I NAILED the Steve Harris tone! I also liked how they have a wider tonal spectrum than the La Bellas. They just work better for the types of music I play.

I know they will mellow out in the near future and I'm curious how they will do so. The Chromes on my Ric 4003 sound amazing now that the 6 month mark has passed.

ah ok. I assumed the heavier gauge because i have 50ish-110 on the brain he he

 

[DanRelayer]

Greetings to the D standard club! Now, I have read plenty of pages, but still feel like asking directly, to make sure that I have understood everything correctly.

What I have:

an FGN Dark Evolution Jazz Bass 4 string with active EMGs, a band playing industrial music, necessity to use D standard with lowering 4th string to C occasionally. I tried 5 string basses, but they are too damn wide for my hands, even though I like 'em visually and sound wise. I am a newbie on bass, having played guitars solely before, therefore a 4 string version seemed like a much more prudent solution. The instrument's stock strings (currently on) are a 105-45 set. With the current action it's already buzzing and when I detune, it buzzes even more and feels floppy. I am not willing to get into flatwound territory just yet. Playing predominantly with a pick, but will be mastering the finger technique eventually.

What I am looking to get:

- 14702 4-String Medium, Long Scale 050 070 085 105;
- EB Slinky Bass Nickel RoundWound 55-75-90-110;
- DR DDT-50 Drop-Down Tuning Heavy Bass 4-Strings 50/110;

Ultimately, I need to understand whether a 105 is going to cut it or whether I should go with slightly heavier 110. Maybe, some of you may have good recommendations not present in the short list above.,

 

[michael_t]

What I am looking to get:

- 14702 4-String Medium, Long Scale 050 070 085 105;
- EB Slinky Bass Nickel RoundWound 55-75-90-110;
- DR DDT-50 Drop-Down Tuning Heavy Bass 4-Strings 50/110;

Ultimately, I need to understand whether a 105 is going to cut it or whether I should go with slightly heavier 110. Maybe, some of you may have good recommendations not present in the short list above.,

I use the DR DDT 45-105 for DGCF, which works well for me as my default for EADG is 40-100/40-95. For drop C, I would definitely go with the .110 for the C. I do like the DDT because of the extra stiffness and tuning stability. They're stainless steel, but the surface texture feels almost as smooth as nickel.

 

[DanRelayer]

I use the DR DDT 45-105 for DGCF, which works well for me as my default for EADG is 40-100/40-95. For drop C, I would definitely go with the .110 for the C. I do like the DDT because of the extra stiffness and tuning stability. They're stainless steel, but the surface texture feels almost as smooth as nickel.

Thanks for the feedback on DR! Never used them (unlike Ernie and Elixir on guitars).

 

[michael_t]

Thanks for the feedback on DR! Never used them (unlike Ernie and Elixir on guitars).

I also use the DR Lo-Riders 40-100 (EADG), both stainless and nickel, and like them a lot.

 

[MrAB4003]

Greetings to the D standard club! Now, I have read plenty of pages, but still feel like asking directly, to make sure that I have understood everything correctly.

What I have:

an FGN Dark Evolution Jazz Bass 4 string with active EMGs, a band playing industrial music, necessity to use D standard with lowering 4th string to C occasionally. I tried 5 string basses, but they are too damn wide for my hands, even though I like 'em visually and sound wise. I am a newbie on bass, having played guitars solely before, therefore a 4 string version seemed like a much more prudent solution. The instrument's stock strings (currently on) are a 105-45 set. With the current action it's already buzzing and when I detune, it buzzes even more and feels floppy. I am not willing to get into flatwound territory just yet. Playing predominantly with a pick, but will be mastering the finger technique eventually.

What I am looking to get:

- 14702 4-String Medium, Long Scale 050 070 085 105;
- EB Slinky Bass Nickel RoundWound 55-75-90-110;
- DR DDT-50 Drop-Down Tuning Heavy Bass 4-Strings 50/110;

Ultimately, I need to understand whether a 105 is going to cut it or whether I should go with slightly heavier 110. Maybe, some of you may have good recommendations not present in the short list above.,

It depends on how much tension you want on your strings. I have 50-105 (medium gauge) D’Addario XL Nickels on my main bass and there’s just enough tension. I have been thinking about trying the 55-110 (heavy gauge) XL Nickels in the future. But medium gauge sets are more readily available.

Whatever you choose, I would have your bass properly set up for D Standard tuning to eliminate fret buzz and any other issues.