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Daion Washburn Matsumoku HELP!!
- Thread starter iriegnome
- Start date
Correct. The Doctors, after selling several guitars and basses, incorporated as MCI and then, when interest waned, sold to the Japan company.
However, ALL the prototypes under MCI were built in Waco Texas and they continued to be built and sold until the middle 80s. Funny thing, I can't recall either gentlemen's name, although I met them personally in Nashville in 1980.
It sucks to get old...........
DLuxe---That's a great bass, but not an SB-40. 1. You don't have the small toggle switch of the SB-40, 2. the strap button is in a different place from SB-40s and 3. all SB-40's also had two separate cavities in back (1 for the batteries and 1 for the wiring and such) and the covers were metal anyway. Truss rod cover should say SB-40. Also the tuners are different and, as you pointed out, the P pickups are backwards from the SB-40s.
I think you have some Vulture edition. Wonderful basses too. DON'T get rid of it. I know it plays well and gotta love that neck.
I think you have some Vulture edition. Wonderful basses too. DON'T get rid of it. I know it plays well and gotta love that neck.
LOL! It sure can be confusing.
Your Daeon is very cool. I think the only issue is what year.
Like I said earlier, it mimics the SB-40 thing minus a couple of details.
Washburn Vultures I (one pup) and II (2 pup) are dual, shallow cutaways of equal length and are short horned with roundish bodies (like older regular guitars). The SB-40 (like mine show) are unequal length horns and with all the SB-40 stuff.
Some people call SB-40s Vulture II's, but that is incorrect. SB-40s actually come in two names: SB-40 and SB-40EQ---you'll find both names used on the truss rod covers. Weird, huh?
The problem lies in that when Washburn went into new management mid-'80's they also went early digital but only did it with records back to 1985-86. All records earlier than that were lost/destroyed/not-bothered-with! Mind boggling stupidity. I've contacted Washburn begging for them to search for the old records---the reply: forget it, they are gone.
Some guy made a Washburn Bible so to speak about 4 yrs ago---supposedly very thorough---and no mention of the SB-40 (the icon all of Washie basses) or any other of the early prime basses. Some "bible". And the frickin' book is $30-$40!
Anyway, true SB-40s first came out as a 1980 model tho released in late 1979--those are the first SB-40s and that's when I bought mine (the SB-40 with the creme white pups) in a store on Hollywood and Vine in L.A.. They made some in 1981 (SB-40EQ no different from the SB-40) and in 1982-84 also put out the BBR (Black-Black-Red)bass (aka the "Chicago" bass) in single pup and double pup models. All that morphed into the Force 40---great bass with everything the same as the SB-40 except for plastic nut instead of brass and a 4-in-line headstock instead of the 2x2 Wing headstock. You'll see a Force 40 in my picture of 5 basses above---the blue bass. BTW: the pickups should be DiMarzios.
The whole Washburn thing IS confusing. And to make matters worse, the other poster here with his dark red Washburn: Almost an SB-40 but not. Too early for a Force 40. Similar to your Daeon. So where does THAT one fit into the mix? Nobody truly knows. Is it a proto-type SB-40 in some way? But all: yours, mine, DLuxe's, are GREAT basses!!!
I keep searching for old Washburn catalogs and posters so I'll find out someday dammit.
Now you know everything I know about it. Whew----crying shame.
Your Daeon is very cool. I think the only issue is what year.
Like I said earlier, it mimics the SB-40 thing minus a couple of details.
Washburn Vultures I (one pup) and II (2 pup) are dual, shallow cutaways of equal length and are short horned with roundish bodies (like older regular guitars). The SB-40 (like mine show) are unequal length horns and with all the SB-40 stuff.
Some people call SB-40s Vulture II's, but that is incorrect. SB-40s actually come in two names: SB-40 and SB-40EQ---you'll find both names used on the truss rod covers. Weird, huh?
The problem lies in that when Washburn went into new management mid-'80's they also went early digital but only did it with records back to 1985-86. All records earlier than that were lost/destroyed/not-bothered-with! Mind boggling stupidity. I've contacted Washburn begging for them to search for the old records---the reply: forget it, they are gone.
Some guy made a Washburn Bible so to speak about 4 yrs ago---supposedly very thorough---and no mention of the SB-40 (the icon all of Washie basses) or any other of the early prime basses. Some "bible". And the frickin' book is $30-$40!
Anyway, true SB-40s first came out as a 1980 model tho released in late 1979--those are the first SB-40s and that's when I bought mine (the SB-40 with the creme white pups) in a store on Hollywood and Vine in L.A.. They made some in 1981 (SB-40EQ no different from the SB-40) and in 1982-84 also put out the BBR (Black-Black-Red)bass (aka the "Chicago" bass) in single pup and double pup models. All that morphed into the Force 40---great bass with everything the same as the SB-40 except for plastic nut instead of brass and a 4-in-line headstock instead of the 2x2 Wing headstock. You'll see a Force 40 in my picture of 5 basses above---the blue bass. BTW: the pickups should be DiMarzios.
The whole Washburn thing IS confusing. And to make matters worse, the other poster here with his dark red Washburn: Almost an SB-40 but not. Too early for a Force 40. Similar to your Daeon. So where does THAT one fit into the mix? Nobody truly knows. Is it a proto-type SB-40 in some way? But all: yours, mine, DLuxe's, are GREAT basses!!!
I keep searching for old Washburn catalogs and posters so I'll find out someday dammit.
Now you know everything I know about it. Whew----crying shame.
I agree. I saw one of the very first Daions (couldn't even tell you the year they built it) but it was heavy as a damn tank and, while it had the Daion "tuning fork" headstock badge, it had no serial number because it was one of the very first ever built.
The problem (at least as I see it) is that there were "probably" 50-60 of these guitars and basses built in Waco BEFORE they ever started putting the serial numbers on the back of the neck.
What I do know is that they were excellent playing and sounding basses and I wish to hell they were still being built.
You have a gem there. Keep digging and searching! And please, let us know what you find out!!
Cheers!
PAUL SIMON - The Boy In The Bubble (Live) - YouTube
Here is Paul Simon live back when Bakithi Kumalo was playing the fretless Washburn bass that appears to look like the early prototype Vulture II bass? It sounds great in any case!
Here is Paul Simon live back when Bakithi Kumalo was playing the fretless Washburn bass that appears to look like the early prototype Vulture II bass? It sounds great in any case!
Hey DLuxe and OP:
This is a Vulture II
These are BBRs (they made different pup configs on these, mine is the 2nd pic)
This is my FORCE 40
This is a B-20 (mine but sold to another TBer)
The bass in the Paul Simon clip (wonderful clip), because of the knobs is not a SB-40, a Force 40 nor a Vulture.
It actually looks like yours--the almost SB-40... that is a true mystery as to where it fits into the lineage.
I am gonna really search for some catalogs today to find out what yours and the Paul Simon bassist's bass really are.
This is a Vulture II
These are BBRs (they made different pup configs on these, mine is the 2nd pic)
This is my FORCE 40
This is a B-20 (mine but sold to another TBer)
The bass in the Paul Simon clip (wonderful clip), because of the knobs is not a SB-40, a Force 40 nor a Vulture.
It actually looks like yours--the almost SB-40... that is a true mystery as to where it fits into the lineage.
I am gonna really search for some catalogs today to find out what yours and the Paul Simon bassist's bass really are.
However, Bakithi Kumalo, bass according to Bass Player and this interview with Fretless Bass, is and was a Washburn.
"7. FB: What was your very first fretless bass? Do you still own it?
Bakithi Kumalo: B20 Washburn 4-String. Yes, I still own it. It is "retired" though.
8. FB: What is your favorite fretless bass you've ever played?
Bakithi Kumalo: B20 Washburn 4-String."
"7. FB: What was your very first fretless bass? Do you still own it?
Bakithi Kumalo: B20 Washburn 4-String. Yes, I still own it. It is "retired" though.
8. FB: What is your favorite fretless bass you've ever played?
Bakithi Kumalo: B20 Washburn 4-String."
That"s what so crazy. Look forever and you won't find a "B-20" fretless. And the B-20 in all Washburn ads only show as the B-20 like I posted above with an Explorer type body anyhow. I mean, I own or have owned these basses. I don't get it. I'd LOVE to get a good shot of the bass with the truss rod cover, etc and see what and why he says its a B-20 fretless. And then you have the whole Vulture as I posted being called SB-40s, B-40s etc etc.
You oughta see the collection of Washburn info and pictures I have, and posters and ads. Nuts!
And that is the sin Washburn committed when they got rid of all their old records. Makes me holler.
Here's a partial list of the early '80's stuff they went wild on: These are the ones I cannot find pictures of or do not own:
Model:B62 Manufacturer:Washburn Guitars Type:Bass Guitar Year: 1984-1986
Force B-8K 1984-86
Model:B70 1985-1988
B60 1984-86 HEADLESS
B4 1982-86 Description: Also Available With EMG Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body Construction: Solid - Neck Wood: Maple - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Pearl - Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard
B40EQ 1982-86 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Wood: Rocky Mountain Maple (Douglas Maple, Greene Maple, New Mexico Maple, Torrey Maple) - Neck Attachment: Neck-through - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge: String Thru - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: 2
B42 Washburn Guitars Bass 1983 Description: Guitar Type: Electric - Body Construction: Solid - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 24 - Inlay: Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: Headless - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Red - Guitar Hardware: Black, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: 2
SCAVENGER BASS 1979-1985 single pickup
B5 Washburn Guitars Bass 1983 - 1986 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Neck Construction: 3 Piece - Fingerboard: Ebony - Frets: 22 - # of Strings: 4 - Scale Length: 34" (86cm) - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge: String Thru - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Finish : Various - Guitar Hardware: 1x Volume Control, 1x Tone Control, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard, Truss Rod
B62 Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
B8 Washburn Guitars Bass 1982 - 1986 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Wood: Maple - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Fingerboard: Maple - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Pearl - Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Blue, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard
Stage B-20-8 Washburn Guitars Bass 1980 - 1985 Description: # of Strings: 8
Stage B-20BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1985
Force B-40EQ-BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
Stage B-20EQ Washburn Guitars Bass 1986 - 1988
Force B-8BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
Force B-8K Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
B]Force B-8K-BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
G-64 Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Headstock: Headless
GB-63 Washburn Guitars Bass 1986 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
GB-64B Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
Stage B-20II Washburn Guitars Bass 1980 – 1985
Stage B-5BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1985
Wing Vulture Washburn Guitars Bass 1979 - 1982
Meanwhile your bass and the OP's Daeon are cool and most excellent.
I'm going to try and find some Looonnnggg term Washburn dealers and see if they have kept any old records, ads, whatever. That might be the only way to verify anything at this point.
You oughta see the collection of Washburn info and pictures I have, and posters and ads. Nuts!
And that is the sin Washburn committed when they got rid of all their old records. Makes me holler.
Here's a partial list of the early '80's stuff they went wild on: These are the ones I cannot find pictures of or do not own:
Model:B62 Manufacturer:Washburn Guitars Type:Bass Guitar Year: 1984-1986
Force B-8K 1984-86
Model:B70 1985-1988
B60 1984-86 HEADLESS
B4 1982-86 Description: Also Available With EMG Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body Construction: Solid - Neck Wood: Maple - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Pearl - Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard
B40EQ 1982-86 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Wood: Rocky Mountain Maple (Douglas Maple, Greene Maple, New Mexico Maple, Torrey Maple) - Neck Attachment: Neck-through - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge: String Thru - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: 2
B42 Washburn Guitars Bass 1983 Description: Guitar Type: Electric - Body Construction: Solid - Fingerboard: Rosewood - Frets: 24 - Inlay: Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: Headless - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Red - Guitar Hardware: Black, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: 2
SCAVENGER BASS 1979-1985 single pickup
B5 Washburn Guitars Bass 1983 - 1986 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Neck Construction: 3 Piece - Fingerboard: Ebony - Frets: 22 - # of Strings: 4 - Scale Length: 34" (86cm) - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge: String Thru - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Finish : Various - Guitar Hardware: 1x Volume Control, 1x Tone Control, 3-Way Switch - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard, Truss Rod
B62 Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
B8 Washburn Guitars Bass 1982 - 1986 Description: Includes BBR Model,Also Available With EMG Style Pickups. Guitar Type: Electric - Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Body Construction: Solid - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Neck Wood: Maple - Neck Attachment: Bolt - Fingerboard: Maple - Frets: 22 - Inlay: Pearl - Dot - # of Strings: 4 - Headstock: 4 In-Line - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Cutaway: Double - Finish : Black, Blue, Tobacco Sunburst, White - Guitar Hardware: Chrome - Pickup Configuration: Single - Guitar Features: Pickguard
Stage B-20-8 Washburn Guitars Bass 1980 - 1985 Description: # of Strings: 8
Stage B-20BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1985
Force B-40EQ-BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
Stage B-20EQ Washburn Guitars Bass 1986 - 1988
Force B-8BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
Force B-8K Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
B]Force B-8K-BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1986
G-64 Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Headstock: Headless
GB-63 Washburn Guitars Bass 1986 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
GB-64B Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 - 1986 Description: Double Neck. Body: Carbon Fiber (Graphite) - Top Wood: Cocobolo (Nicaraguan Rosewood) - Headstock: Headless - Bridge Construction: Carbon Fiber (Graphite)
Stage B-20II Washburn Guitars Bass 1980 – 1985
Stage B-5BBR Washburn Guitars Bass 1984 – 1985
Wing Vulture Washburn Guitars Bass 1979 - 1982
Meanwhile your bass and the OP's Daeon are cool and most excellent.
I'm going to try and find some Looonnnggg term Washburn dealers and see if they have kept any old records, ads, whatever. That might be the only way to verify anything at this point.
I used to deal with a guy in Cresent City Florida that was a long time dealer. He might know or have some information. I worked at Washburn in 1999-2000 and I know those people had no clue. I knew more. I also gathered for them more information then they ever knew they had. Usually the CS people there are too lazy to care. (I did say usually). Anyone who might be able to stop at the Mundeline Facility could probably get some person to talk to. Everyone one I knew is long gone from there. If you check out the Paul Simon video from Africa with Ladysmith, You can catch really good glimpses at the bass, but they are fleeting. Head stock seems to say Washburn, wood truss cover, but tuners like on mine, long and sticking out. I too have owned several of the B-20's in the "explorer" style. Actually they were the B-28 8 string versions.
Oh, the guy who owned Cresent City Music was named Allen, I am pretty sure of that. Great guy too
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Hmmm....I have a Washburn bass almost identical to the one in the original post (mine has a veneer over the multi-wood neck on the headstock face) and I have a Daion neck thru. Never really thought them to be made by the same shop or one to be a proto type of the other as they play and feel quite a bit different.
SMG, can you post some pics of each? I really would like to see them both. I am sure several others in this post would too
Here is a link to a page I found. It lists all the "Wing" series Washburns. This particular page is for the Vulture II Looks exactly like my bass in the original post except different tuners and the one pictured has electronics like the SB-40.
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Glad you dug up that Wing Series link!! Good work! I have finally dug up some info as well that'll really rock you about the SB-40s, Vultures I and II and your basses! So much that I'll probably have to PM you both! Hang on and I'll get to you. Very excited on this!!!
I think you're gonna be surprised as hell!
I think you're gonna be surprised as hell!
