Daion Washburn Matsumoku HELP!!

[iriegnome]

It is worth whatever you want to pay for it. Since the one you are looking at is an actual sb40eq, they usually are around $400 including the case.
From what I have noticed, truss rod covers, tuners and bridges are the biggest give aways that it is a Diaon/Washburn or a Matsukoku/Washburn

 

[MEKer]

Here is one that i am looking at. what do you think it is worth, the owner says it is in great condition.

What you have is a B-40 that someone put on an SB-40EQ truss rod cover. 4 pots and a switch were B-40 things. In fact, here is a black SB-40EQ--notice all SB's started the 3 pots, 1 toggle, 1 mini-switch thing.

here's another SB-40EQ

And here is a nice, typical B-40 that TB'er Twocan sold to TB'er GaryLC (lucky guy!)

I have seen a fretless B-40 also with an SB truss rod cover. The B-40's came WITHOUT a truss rod cover name until 1982 when the B-40EQ came out WITH a truss rod cover name and the SB-40 elec package of 3/1/1

 

[bigbirader]

Hi there, I own a Vulture I Washburn Bass Guitar (S/N 792663) which I bought from Germany back in 1993. Couple of years ago I posted it on Link Removed to find out more info on it. Someone there said it's a Daion, not a Matsumoku (The lack of model number on the truss rod cover, the wood truss rod cover, the straight tuners, The solid brass bridge pieces are all indicators of being a Daion and not a Matsumoku Washburn). Anyone can confirm this info? Thanks in advance.

And here are some photos:
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[iriegnome]

MEKer on the washburn forum is the shiznit. He will tell you all about your bass. I do believe yours is a Daion, but he would know for sure

 

[MEKer]

Hi Bigbirader-----

You have a typical Vulture I, made by Washburn in 1979. Either made at the Yamaki or Matsumoko factory. Look at the circuit board under the control cavity cover and Yamaki often has their name on it real tiny print. Please let us know. The lack of name on the truss rod cover, brass nut, etc is all typical Washburn on most ALL of their basses AND guitars for the first few years, mainly 1978-1979-1980 and was continued on those 4 early bass models even after that, although most new bass models from 1980 (B-20 for example) on had their model names on the truss rod cover or headstock.

We must be very wary of too much "Daionizing" on early Washies. I am convinced of only 2 that I have seen as being most probably made in Waco, TX by Daion as a proto for Washburn (yes, yes, we all know of the Japanese shop too...) and one of those is iriegnome's B-40, as is the other one.

Hope that helps. Tell me, yours is a neck-through for sure or a set neck?

 

[michaelmeyer]

hi members
i have the original sb-40 here are some pictures .really a good guitar with a fantastic sound .serial number 80240 it is an 1980 model

 

[MEKer]

hi members
i have the original sb-40 here are some pictures .really a good guitar with a fantastic sound .serial number 80240 it is an 1980 model

Nice bass, michaelmeyer, but what you really have is a Wing series 1982 B-40 bass (1980-1983) serial number 820249, the correct 6-digit serial number. The extra hole was put there by some owner for some reason.

The Wing series SB-40 is active and has a different electrical package. It came out only as a new bass for 1981. I bought one (I still have it) in late 1980 when they were introduced. I bought another a few years ago after years of searching so I have two SB-40 basses. Then in 1982, the SB-40EQ came out and is different only in the cavity cover colors (black versus the brushed aluminum of the 1981 SB). I also have one of those. The electrical package was so nice that it was used for the 1983 Force series headstocked B-40EQ/EQW and Force 40 basses (which I also have).

What has you under a misapprehension is the truss rod cover. The B-40, including your 1982 B-40, should have a blank truss rod cover like all B-40's are supposed to have, but there are several that came out (as factory errors) from the Matsumoku factory with the 1981 SB-40 truss cover. So not only is the fact your B-40 has a name on it in error, it also has the wrong year truss rod cover! In my Washburn files, over the years, I have collected perhaps a dozen with that factory error, all interestingly enough, are on 1982 B-40s! And also two even with a Vulture name on them and both of THOSE are 1981 B-40's!!

Your B-40 is a cool bass and has the Vulture II electrical package as it should. Enjoy it! Here is a picture of my original SB-40, then a pic of a fretless B-40 and a pic of the SB-40 truss cover on it in error, and then a pic of a typical B-40. Hope this all helps:

Ok, cannot upload pics at this time (damn computer) but if you search you will see I have posted pictures of all this many times.

 

[michaelmeyer]

The hole i made it myself and put in a mini amp to make it louder with a switch to bypass the amp .i took it out cause i dont use it anymore .the serial number is 80249 and printed in black at the back of the head

 

[MEKer]

The hole i made it myself and put in a mini amp to make it louder with a switch to bypass the amp .i took it out cause i dont use it anymore .the serial number is 80249 and printed in black at the back of the head

Take a good look at the second number of the serial number, michaelmeyer......it is very clearly a "2". Compare it to the other two "0"'s. The serial number is 820240, six numbers, not five. And where do you see a "9"???
And thanks for clearing up the mystery of the hole.
You have a nice bass there!

 

[foal30]

Like this B-20, 3rd from the right which I sold to a good TB'er a couple years ago? A beauty in just 100% pristine shape!!!

left to right:
Langcaster guitar, Langcaster bass, Washburn B-20, Washburn 1984 Force 40, Washburn 1979 (80) SB-40, Washburn (1981 I think) SB-40 with a modded stacked knob

OP: I bet your '84 Washburn was a Force 40 huh?

Are you a Kiwi or have lived in NZ?

 

[MEKer]

Are you a Kiwi or have lived in NZ?

Heya foal30............No, not a Kiwi and never been to NZ, but found Langcaster (Joh Lang) on the internet years ago. Incredible to have instruments made of the oldest, workable wood (not to mention extremely and uniquely beautiful) in the world (Pleistocene era) by such a wonderful guy and craftsman!!

Hah-----------old picture of mine when I still had my B-20 Stage bass! You can add several more vintage Washburns to that picture now. Notice I totally screwed up the dates on the 2 SB-40's? Both are 1981 ---duhhhhhh!!---what was I thinking? They are: sn 811495-tobacco sunburst and 811498-honey sunburst. Only 3 SN's apart!
Of course, OWNING them, my dumb-a$$ knew the serial numbers..so why did I say the wrong dates? Hmmm, was I drunk, distracted or just plain stupid that day? Probably the last reason.
to me.

 

[michaelmeyer]

you are correct i enlarged it on the computer and the number is 820240.can you tell me the price value today?thanks for the info

 

[foal30]

Heya foal30............No, not a Kiwi and never been to NZ, but found Langcaster (Joh Lang) on the internet years ago. Incredible to have instruments made of the oldest, workable wood (not to mention extremely and uniquely beautiful) in the world (Pleistocene era) by such a wonderful guy and craftsman!!

Hah-----------old picture of mine when I still had my B-20 Stage bass! You can add several more vintage Washburns to that picture now. Notice I totally screwed up the dates on the 2 SB-40's? Both are 1981 ---duhhhhhh!!---what was I thinking? They are: sn 811495-tobacco sunburst and 811498-honey sunburst. Only 3 SN's apart!
Of course, OWNING them, my dumb-a$$ knew the serial numbers..so why did I say the wrong dates? Hmmm, was I drunk, distracted or just plain stupid that day? Probably the last reason.
to me.

Cheers bro.

The only Daion Bass I have played or seen was MIJ . P/J style
They made acoustic guitars as well, Lady at church has one.

 

[MEKer]

you are correct i enlarged it on the computer and the number is 820240.can you tell me the price value today?thanks for the info

Well, the price of a B-40 swings pretty broadly. I have seen them go anywhere from $250 to $400 (if flawless). You see, vintage Washburns are some of the best basses out there, but because Fender and Gibson and Rickenbackers have all the so-called "mojo" among vintage basses, Washburns are under-valued in the marketplace. It is a good thing for a buyers (us) but a bad thing for any seller who hopes to score big because it is vintage. So in the end many sellers split the difference. Best to you!

 

[MEKer]

Cheers bro.

The only Daion Bass I have played or seen was MIJ . P/J style
They made acoustic guitars as well, Lady at church has one.

So what brought up Daions to you? Hah! But heck Yes, Daions are cool and made lots of basses in Japan for a while with their famous tuning fork logo. Much sought after among the collectors. But they also had a connection to some brothers (both dentists I believe) down in Waco, Texas who made some Daions and also made some Washburn proto-types. One of our members, "Buster Brown",here on TB actually was sponsored by them (the Waco connection) back in the day . Here is what he told me 3 years ago when this came up:

"Sure! I'd be glad to help. Here's a quick history lesson about Daion. I was called (I believe in 1979, but it MIGHT have been 1978, those days were a tad wild) but anyway, I digress...

A good friend of mine called me (he owned a music store) and asked me to come down. When I got there, I was introduced to two Doctors ( I apologize, I can only remember Chuck and David) . Both were HUGE jazz fans from Waco Texas and they were building a line of guitars and basses under the name "Daion" and their trademark was a tuning fork.

They asked me to take a couple of their basses (A natural finish Mark-XX and a burgundy Mark-XX) try them out and let them know what I thought of them. Additionally, they had a Fretless version of the Mark-XX, but I never had the pleasure of playing one.

As a result, I gladly played, and endorsed Daion until 1983, when I began playing Fender. Several guys endorsed Daion as well like a couple of guys from Black Oak Arkansas and Steelers Wheel. Both my basses were built in Waco Texas. The company went belly up (I think) in 1984 or thereabouts and was sold to a Japanese company and then, more or less, abandoned around that time, but there was also a period where the name "Daion" was put on some rather funky guitars and basses that were built in Australia, I believe.

Daion built 6 string electric guitars (same line as the Mark-XX) and they built a variety of acoustic guitars as well, although I BELEVE the acoustics were built in Japan by Matsomuko. However, I could be wrong about that. The dreadnought guitars are highly collectible these days.

That's about all the info that I have, other than they were great basses and guitars! Both the guitars and basses show up every now and again on EBay and fetch a pretty good price.

Not really sure why your guy would say that they never made guitars...he'll, I saw several of them over the years and, again, there is usually one or two of them (and usually several of the Acoustics) on EBay

Hope this helps you a little!!"

 

[MEKer]

you are correct i enlarged it on the computer and the number is 820240.can you tell me the price value today?thanks for the info

Holy smoke---------------look at post #82 above( from 2013)---------I answered a fellow TB'er's question---same question about your own B-40! I posted some pics also. Man, this thread is a little long in the tooth!

 

[Mbechmann]

I have skimmed through this thread and there is a LOT of INCORRECT info here.

First things first. Matsomuko NEVER build ANY Washburns. Yamaki did, and when Yamaki went under, Chushin took over.

Secondly, the whole Wing series is designed by Hirotsuga Teradaira that was the nephew to the Yamaki founder and son of the Daion founder. Daion was a distribution company to begin with, and became a brand in 77. They were build by Yamaki.

There is a lot more to the history but some parts of it can be found here:

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Also feel free to join our Daion/Yamaki/Washburn online group: Daions Online

 

[devnulljp]

Purty!

 

[MEKer]

I have skimmed through this thread and there is a LOT of INCORRECT info here.

First things first. Matsomuko NEVER build ANY Washburns. Yamaki did, and when Yamaki went under, Chushin took over.

Secondly, the whole Wing series is designed by Hirotsuga Teradaira that was the nephew to the Yamaki founder and son of the Daion founder. Daion was a distribution company to begin with, and became a brand in 77. They were build by Yamaki.

There is a lot more to the history but some parts of it can be found here:

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Also feel free to join our Daion/Yamaki/Washburn online group: Daions Online

Well, you sure added to the mis-information here in a big way. BTW, Chushin provided bridges for Matsumoku for a period, maybe a couple other components sometimes, but did not manufacture Washburn basses/guitars.
The history of Washburn manufacture by Matsumoku came in 1979 to augment Yamaki production, and then continued until 1985 (including Wing series) when a string of other companies took up production. All is is well documented and acknowledged if you take the time to look it up.
You are, of course, free to believe what you want about Washburn production regardless of facts well-researched at the Washburn Club here, including input from a fellow at Washburn who was there at the time. But I will not re-hash years of investigation here for you.
So, believe what you will. Have a great day.

 

[Mbechmann]

Well, you sure added to the mis-information here in a big way. BTW, Chushin provided bridges for Matsumoku for a period, maybe a couple other components sometimes, but did not manufacture Washburn basses/guitars.
The history of Washburn manufacture by Matsumoku came in 1979 to augment Yamaki production, and then continued until 1985 (including Wing series) when a string of other companies took up production. All is is well documented and acknowledged if you take the time to look it up.
You are, of course, free to believe what you want about Washburn production regardless of facts well-researched at the Washburn Club here, including input from a fellow at Washburn who was there at the time. But I will not re-hash years of investigation here for you.
So, believe what you will. Have a great day.

First of all, do your self a favor. Google my name. After you have done that, you will find out that I HAVE done the research. This is NOT mis-information. This is the CORRECT and proven info.

But since I am guessing you wont bother googling my name, I will just tell you how I know. I am a part of a 3 man team that have done research into Daion/Yamaki/Washburn for the last 10 years. Doing that research we have actually found several extremely good contacts. The main contact from that? The guy that designed the Washburn Wings series himself - Mr Hirotsuga Teradaira. He is the son of the Daion founder, and the nephew of the Yamaki founder. He is the one that designed the Washburn wings, Washburn Stage, Washburn Force and several of the Washburn acoustics.
But to be fair, we didnt know if that meant that Matsumoku build other Washburns. So we managed to find a contact that worked at Matsumoku. This guy designed and build the whole Westone series. He is the one that confirmed that Matsumoku NEVER build ANY Washburns.

As for Chushin. I think you need to look at the Chushin build instruments from 84-86. Not just Washburns, but all PROVEN Chushin instruments. Once you have done that, we can talk again about the socalled "correct info" that Chushin did not building Washburns. Chushin was a distributor to ALL factories in Japan. All through the 70s they were distributing 90% of all the parts to the guitar industry in Japan. So you are correct. They did supply Matsumoku with a "few" parts. They were in fact, the sole parts distributor for Matsumoku... They continued to have distribution as their main focus, until they went to Kasuga to help convert into a fully functional factory as well. That happened in 1975-76. Before that Chushin did build a few instruments but nothing major. From 78-84 they were also building a lot of instruments together with Yamaki. There is a bit of history between them - from Zenon - but I wont go into that here. You can do the research on that if you want.

Last but not least, since 1973 there has been a law in Japan that have meant that all instruments leaving the factory all complete, than they have had to have a unique ID so they could track the warranty and safety issues. That in short meant, that they had to have a serial number. When the law was passed they implemented a 3-4 year grace periode, but by 1978 all instruments leaving the factory had to have a serial number. This also meant that since these numbers were approved by the govenment, you could not change it like every single day. Now Matsumoku did change it a lot. Like every single year. But there are some key details that makes this important.
Fx, the font on the Matsumoku instruments are 6-7mm high. The ones on fx Chushin and Yamaki are 4mm high. Thats a big difference.
Now, if you look at the Washburn serial numbers. There is only 1 factory that has the same serial number style, position and font. That one is Yamaki.

Thats 3 strikes to Matsumoku. Do I need to go on? I can you know. This is not even half the info we have on Daions/Yamaki/Washburn.