Double Bass Dark or Bright sounding strings ? wich brands ? how make the difference

[bassmanbrent]

I think most folks will agree that spiros are the standard by which all other steel strings are measured. That said, my experience with helicore hybrids has been quite different from Damon's or Chris'.

Please note that I mean absolutely no disrespect at all to Damon or Chris in countering their experiences. They are both amazing at what they do and are on a whole other level (or two) from me

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Please note that I mean absolutely no disrespect at all to Damon or Chris in countering their experiences. They are both amazing at what they do and are on a whole other level (or two) from me

Not at all. This stuff is all subjective. I remember once when I told Lynn Seaton that I played Dominants and he made some crack about having tried them and finding them "decidedly sub-dominant".

 

[bassmanbrent]

Not at all. This stuff is all subjective. I remember once when I told Lynn Seaton that I played Dominants and he made some crack about having tried them and finding them "decidedly sub-dominant".

I like Dominants. Go figure

 

[damonsmith]

Please note that I mean absolutely no disrespect at all to Damon or Chris in countering their experiences. They are both amazing at what they do and are on a whole other level (or two) from me

No problem, I do think a lot of strings can sound absolutely beautiful in idea circumstances. Only Sprios will really cut in as wide a variety of room, amp or no amp, etc.

 

[Mister Cbass]

Obligato are not that bad, but they have a rather limited lifespan and at least some years ago the lower strings have some unpleasant rolling (winding rotating around the core). But that might have been solved.

Coming from the BG you need to train your hand a lot more and a good setup (go to a luthier, if it is good he does not do anything and if it is bad the money is well spent) will save a lot of potential problems playing that thing.

DB string are very (!) different from BG strings. Construction and material (inner and outer) are important, tension is important playability with the bow is important.
An outer synthetic winding is almost impossible to bow. The best of them have a rough outer surface.
The core takes the whole tension so material, construction (solid, rope or braided) and diameter is important.
Naked gut (not easy to bow for a beginner) and monofiber nylon (impossible to bow) are core only strings. Any other strings have one or more layers of windings of different materials and construction (round or flat wire).

Solid steel core is very Hard, almost nobody plays these nowadays. Rope and braided steel core is more elastic (remember that you elongate the string by pressing them on the fingerboard or plucking them).
Gut and synthetic core strings from Innovation have a higher stretch but not too much. I would recommend Silver or Golden Slaps over Super Silvers, less tension (similar to gut), easy to play.

For a bit more brightness, metal wound synthetic core strings work well.
In General: more tension on the same type of strings Gets a riggtet sound (and vice versa).
Some people use Solo strings (intended to be played a whole tone higher and tune them down to orchestral tuning.
Some strings are available as light/Weich which is like tuning down by a halftone but the correct pitch. This is between medium/Mittel orchestral and downtuned Solo strings. Often Spirocore Solo strings are used downtuned.

For Spirocore and Superflexible the construction of 3/4 and 4/4 strings is different. 4/4 strings have less tension on the same scale as 3/4 strings and are common in the US but less in Europe (you need to make clear that you want to get the 4/4 version which might need to be ordered).

To start I would recommend Silver Slaps for pizz only, Innovation Polychromes, Innovation Braided or Spirocore 4/4 Solo or Weich if you ever want to use the bow (even if only for practicing).
brightness is rising and tension as well (with the exception of the downtuned Spiros which might be similar to the tension of Polychromes).

BTW, Innovation Honeys are dark, similar to the Jazzicato, you won‘t like them.

You will not find every string there, but have a look at my DropBox (link in signature or string sticky) at the excel file for string tensions.

One more thing:
Since the synthetic has a lower density than metal, synthetic wound or/and synthetic core strings have a higher diameter (if they have a similar tension). Mostly noticeable at the higher strings. They are easier to press down for the left hand than full steel strings because they stretch easier and the contact area with the downpressing finger is higher.
On the other hand most synthetic core string have a nylon/Perlon or PEEK core which stretches a lot. Easy to play but if you pluck a bit harder you will detect a volume limit that you won‘t get over with a harder plucking. That‘s one reason why I like then Innovation strings. They use a different type of core that does not have this limit.

At the end you have to try, but a teacher can help you a lot to find your way at the beginning. The BG way of plucking or rather touching does not work on a DB.

Hello,

Thanks for your very detailed answer. You talk about innovation, silver slaps, honney....
I've listened yesterday the reviews of Hervé Jeanne ( youtube)
I found the silver slap tone really cool, these strings seems to have a nice natural growl and more projection.



Not the best for bow, But maybe for me that will be enough, I use the bow only to work my intonation.
Honey sound good too and polychrome are nice.

1- silver slaps / 2 honey / 3 polychrome.

On his channel there are two reviews about markbass strings ( not bad too )

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Hello,

Thanks for your very detailed answer. You talk about innovation, silver slaps, honney....
I've listened yesterday the reviews of Hervé Jeanne ( youtube)
I found the silver slap tone really cool, these strings seems to have a nice natural growl and more projection.



Not the best for bow, But maybe for me that will be enough, I use the bow only to work my intonation.
Honey sound good too and polychrome are nice.

1- silver slaps / 2 honey / 3 polychrome.

On his channel there are two reviews about markbass strings ( not bad too )

Do you really mean the Honeys or the Braided? Hervé got the Braided from me a while ago for testing.
The Honeys have a bit of brightness on the G but none on the other three strings. They are mostly present in the low mids. The Braided have a bit of air that I like and that is not present with the Honeys.
Polychromes are lower tension than Braided or Honeys. Too low for me (due to the early prototypes I got), but probably good for you.

Take Silver Slaps for pizz or Polychromes for pizz and bow. The sound might get a bit darker after a year, try if you can adapt to the sound change and if not buy another set.

 

[Mister Cbass]

I love so much this forum, a question and a numerous of information, tips....I'm loading a big package of data! thanks !

I was before on french forum, not the same spirit..... for a similar question the answers will be
"Google is your friend"
" already requested, make a search on the forum "
" I know that your budget is between 100 - 200 €, but I will suggest a 500 bucks set strings"

or just no answer .

Thanks Folks, that was helpful !!

 

[Don Hergert]

@Mister Cbass, when I first responded to your questions here I was hesitant to specifically mention SilverSlaps because it sounded like your muscial target was more modern/new jazz and orchestral with bowing...

I've been using SilverSlaps for about 2 years now, the SilverSlaps E and A (under SBW Deluxe D and G). The SilverSlaps E and A have excellent clarity and volume and notable growl and project the exact note very clearly which was what I needed.

The SilverSlaps weren't originally very usable for arco, but I kept trying with generous rosin and a relatively tight bow, and after about 2 weeks they began to really respond to the bow (the SBW Deluxe D and G have always been good for arco). I mostly play arco in practice for intonation, but will also occasionally bow a bit on stage for variety and for special effects in performance.

I'm playing a 1930s aluminum Alcoa, so finding strings that didn't sound at all metallic was important to me, as well as finding strings that wouldn't hurt my hands with pizz, light slap and a little arco. The mix of SilverSlaps under SBW was just what I needed. This synthetic mix has been lasting for 2+ years with no signs of wear so far. I amp a little on stage as needed, but also jam a lot in totally acoustic jams; my genre direction is roots/Americana including a lot of bluegrass, Gospel, country, folk, old jazz, light swing, etc., my primary venue direction is bluegrass festival stage, jamming, coffee houses, church programs, etc.

A person's musical direction, including general targets for genre and venues (and amplification needs), makes a big difference as far as what strings to recommend. Some of the early responses in this thread have alluded to this, but just to be clear, what and where are you seeing yourself playing as you move forward with string selections?

 

[Mister Cbass]

@dhergert

Lol with you I've discovered new cool sentences and now a new manufacturer of strings (sbw)

Musical direction, is it good question.
Actually, as beginner, I work with simandl and the evolving bassist method. I play both pizzicato, and use the bow for intonation works.
I've not the level to play jazz, I work some pop / rock songs for the moment, old rock etc ( sting, little richards, elvis, the covers from postmodern jukebox are also insperating... ). I enjoy also play latin music with db, a style I've never listen before.
So I play actually not a specific style, I work the most songs I can depending of my skills.
I'd like learn to slap, but first I prefer work pizzicato.

My goals --> practice, practice ( 1 year or more) and after try to find a band to apply.
Pop, rock, country, latin, I will see ...depending the evolution of my tastes / desires or the opportunites.

I play sometimes with a friend ( guitar player), but time to time, for fun or fancy the friends.

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Look cool, and not expensive, I will purchase 2 ( one for my acoustic db and the second for the eub).
Nice concept ( 6 strings in a package for a friendly price).

 

[Don Hergert]

Good, thanks for the background...

Just to be clear, while I really like the SBW Deluxe strings, they aren't for everyone... They sort of at the high end of the "wacker" type of strings, which turns a lot of people off. They are actually some sort of Gator Line wacker monofilament strings with a Kevlar core. They have been spiral cut which gives them the look and feel of gut, and also allows them to work pretty nicely with a bow. And they've been provided with a pretty nice dipped ball end that works well with just about any tailpiece. SBW Deluxe strings are primarily popular with rockabilly and psychobilly DB players, although I've met a few bluegrassers who enjoy them like I do.

For me with the SilverSlaps E and A, the SBW Deluxe medium gauge D and G is an excellent match for tone, volume and feel. The SBW Deluxe strings E and A were great amped, but pretty unclear and quiet acoustically where I do most of my playing.

IF you find yourself getting into roots music, including slap or wanting a gut-like feel, look and relatively close to gut-like tone, SBW Deluxe might work for you, but you most likely won't find any serious modern or new jazz players using them, and you almost certainly won't find any serious orchestral players using them.

Also keep in mind, for an EUB with magnetic pickups the SilverSlaps and the SBW Deluxe will not work, they have no ferrous metal in them. They work very nicely with piezos and microphones.

Edit: One other note about SBW strings... The SBW GripMax strings that you linked are spiral cut part way, allowing for a smooth surface on the fingerboard and a spiral cut where slap, pizz and bowing might occur. As with most wackers, the smooth string area can become sticky with humidity and perspiration. That's one of the things a lot of people generally don't like about wackers.

In contrast, the SBW Deluxe strings are spiral cut for the whole length of the string, providing a consistent texture that in most situations doesn't get sticky.

I've never used the SBW GripMax strings, so you may still want to get some reviews from people who have used them before you decide to acquire them.

 

[Sam Dingle]

@dhergert

Lol with you I've discovered new cool sentences and now a new manufacturer of strings (sbw)

Musical direction, is it good question.
Actually, as beginner, I work with simandl and the evolving bassist method. I play both pizzicato, and use the bow for intonation works.
I've not the level to play jazz, I work some pop / rock songs for the moment, old rock etc ( sting, little richards, elvis, the covers from postmodern jukebox are also insperating... ). I enjoy also play latin music with db, a style I've never listen before.
So I play actually not a specific style, I work the most songs I can depending of my skills.
I'd like learn to slap, but first I prefer work pizzicato.

My goals --> practice, practice ( 1 year or more) and after try to find a band to apply.
Pop, rock, country, latin, I will see ...depending the evolution of my tastes / desires or the opportunites.

I play sometimes with a friend ( guitar player), but time to time, for fun or fancy the friends.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Look cool, and not expensive, I will purchase 2 ( one for my acoustic db and the second for the eub).
Nice concept ( 6 strings in a package for a friendly price).

Im gonna advise you against these strings strongly. For what you want to do and imo most beginners just for practice I think you need to get a set of Spirocore weich, a setup from a professional luthier and a teacher. The superior bassworks IMO are useless and you may be discouraged trying to play arco.

As a beginner you need to get a solid sound, build solid technique and make good habits. Spiros setup teacher will get you that and give you the most success

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Second vote for Spiros - mittles if pizz only, weichs if you bow. The day I put Spiros on my first bass was the day I knew "the sound" was not only possible, but that it was within sight and all that was required was a lot of practice on my part. When I travel and have to borrow a bass, when someone asks me what I'd prefer, I always say "any decent bass with adjusters and Spirocores".

 

[Mister Cbass]

@Mister Cbass, when I first responded to your questions here I was hesitant to specifically mention SilverSlaps because it sounded like your muscial target was more modern/new jazz and orchestral with bowing...

I've been using SilverSlaps for about 2 years now, the SilverSlaps E and A (under SBW Deluxe D and G). The SilverSlaps E and A have excellent clarity and volume and notable growl and project the exact note very clearly which was what I needed.

The SilverSlaps weren't originally very usable for arco, but I kept trying with generous rosin and a relatively tight bow, and after about 2 weeks they began to really respond to the bow (the SBW Deluxe D and G have always been good for arco). I mostly play arco in practice for intonation, but will also occasionally bow a bit on stage for variety and for special effects in performance.

I'm playing a 1930s aluminum Alcoa, so finding strings that didn't sound at all metallic was important to me, as well as finding strings that wouldn't hurt my hands with pizz, light slap and a little arco. The mix of SilverSlaps under SBW was just what I needed. This synthetic mix has been lasting for 2+ years with no signs of wear so far. I amp a little on stage as needed, but also jam a lot in totally acoustic jams; my genre direction is roots/Americana including a lot of bluegrass, Gospel, country, folk, old jazz, light swing, etc., my primary venue direction is bluegrass festival stage, jamming, coffee houses, church programs, etc.

A person's musical direction, including general targets for genre and venues (and amplification needs), makes a big difference as far as what strings to recommend. Some of the early responses in this thread have alluded to this, but just to be clear, what and where are you seeing yourself playing as you move forward with string selections?

Im gonna advise you against these strings strongly. For what you want to do and imo most beginners just for practice I think you need to get a set of Spirocore weich, a setup from a professional luthier and a teacher. The superior bassworks IMO are useless and you may be discouraged trying to play arco.

As a beginner you need to get a solid sound, build solid technique and make good habits. Spiros setup teacher will get you that and give you the most success

Hello, I don't play arco / bow, I've took few lessons with a teacher to get the good position / know how to bow ( just the minimum). I've just use the bow for intonation practice. So " bowable" strings are not the first quality.

As I said before, My Db was setup by a pro luthier when I've changed the strings. ( presto jazzicato, nylon black).

I've listen a lot avishai Cohen and Adam Ben Enzra, both use Spirocore .... If I'm not wrong, and I'm not a huge fan of their sound.
Not sure that these strings could be good for me.

 

[Sam Dingle]

Hello, I don't play arco / bow, I've took few lessons with a teacher to get the good position / know how to bow ( just the minimum). I've just use the bow for intonation practice. So " bowable" strings are not the first quality.

As I said before, My Db was setup by a pro luthier when I've changed the strings. ( presto jazzicato, nylon black).

I've listen a lot avishai Cohen and Adam Ben Enzra, both use Spirocore .... If I'm not wrong, and I'm not a huge fan of their sound.
Not sure that these strings could be good for me.

Understand that that is the player. I have a video of Christian McBride playing a kay with dead Evah strings and he still sounds like a bright Christian McBride. Larry grenadier uses Spiro lights and gets a dark punch of a sound.

I’m just giving the advice of spiros and practice based on a few years of experience with beginner students and posts on talkbass. I can think of one person on here who posted about wanting to avoid spiros for years, finally trying them and regretting not doing it sooner. Ya do it for a year while learning because you know it works and you can get a lot of good habits out of it. Something like a SBW will allow you to be lazy on technique. I also know that those strings don’t bow well and you need something that allows you to hear the pitch when bowing for intonation.

I’m greatful that after a month of playing a Luther threw on a set of Spiro mediums and gave my bass a setup. I had no idea how to change strings so they sat on my bass for 2 years. The moment I stared messing with strings thinking it would help was the start of a lot of wasted time. But maybe that’s a lesson we have to learn the hard way. At the end of the day it’s your decision

 

[Don Hergert]

Something like a SBW will allow you to be lazy on technique.

Respectfully, I think there are a lot of people in a different musical world than your own who would strongly take issue with this statement. But that's a discussion for another time and place.

I definitely would agree that Spiros are a strong choice and a good recommendation for anyone who is specifically targeting general Jazz or Orchestral music. For some of the things that the OP has specifically mentioned, maybe not so much, but he is early in his playing and may decide to go that way.

I do think we need to be careful about unnecessary rhetoric, and we also need to consider that the double bass is not just an orchestral instrument.

 

[Sam Dingle]

Respectfully, I think there are a lot of people in a different musical world than your own who would strongly take issue with this statement. But that's a discussion for another time and place.

I definitely would agree that Spiros are a strong choice and a good recommendation for anyone who is specifically targeting general Jazz or Orchestral music. For some of the things that the OP has specifically mentioned, maybe not so much, but he is early in his playing and may decide to go that way.

I do think we need to be careful about unnecessary rhetoric, and we also need to consider that the double bass is not just an orchestral instrument.

as i was writing my comment i felt it was becoming ranty, but i do stand by the "allow" part, not make. I do understand its not just an orchestral instrument but that doesnt mean the technique should be ignored. its easy to hurt yourself on this bass as I have done many times and I think the setup I recommended for a beginner is the best way to not learn bad habbits. There are always exceptions.

 

[AGCurry]

Am I the only one who finds Youtube videos virtually useless for determining what a string will sound like on my bass?

 

[Sam Dingle]

Am I the only one who finds Youtube videos virtually useless for determining what a string will sound like on my bass?

agreed. also how do you personally play and what works with that. i spent years on evahs cuz every time i loved someones sound they had evahs, but they didn't work for me or my bass

 

[PBandJazzBass]

Am I the only one who finds Youtube videos virtually useless for determining what a string will sound like on my bass?

No, you're not alone. I've never really relied on Youtube videos for getting a sense of what strings will sound like on my bass(es).

There are a couple luthiers in my area who are also friends of mine and both have done extensive work on my bass (they also work in the same shop) so they're pretty familiar with it. I might ask something like "what do you think *insert string name here* would sound like on my bass?" and their advice is usually spot on.

 

[PBandJazzBass]

agreed. also how do you personally play and what works with that. i spent years on evahs cuz every time i loved someones sound they had evahs, but they didn't work for me or my bass

My personal experience with the Evah's was that they sounded really good for about 4-6 months then there was a change in the tonal character between the upper and lower strings. E & A would be really dark and muddy but the D & G would be brighter. Playing across the strings almost sounded like they were from different sets. I also found that the pizz attack was more dull and blunt on the E & A compared to the D & G, as is my experience with a lot of synthetic core strings. I know some players who will use steel (ex. Spirocore) on the bottom with synthetic (Evah, Obligato, Zyex) on top but I've never really liked mixing sets.