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DarkStar Pick Ups

#225
Well I got my Factory proof parts the other day for fit and finish of my Bisonic pickup and here are some pics.... I get the new speced magnets this week as well as the terminal strip. I gave the final okay so they are about 30 days out. These are to vintage Hagstrom spacing but will soon be doing other spacing and 5 and 6 string versions.
CNCP-BS-1.jpg

CNCP-BS-2.jpg

CNCP-BS-3.jpg

CNCP-BS-4.jpg

CNCP-BS-5.jpg
 
#231
The pole spacing is 15.6mm which is plenty close enough for a P-bass. Contrary to popular belief the pole pieces do not have to be directly under a string for the coil to sense the string. The pole piece does not have a laser focus but more of a flood field around the coil. The pole piece is not the primary part of the sensor it is the coil that is doing most of the work. You can actually have a pickup without pole pieces, but you can not have a pickup with out a coil. Secondly there are 2 huge bar magnets under the coil that are creating a large orb like field around the entire coil.
 
#232
Curtis Novak said:
The pole piece is not the primary part of the sensor it is the coil that is doing most of the work. You can actually have a pickup without pole pieces, but you can not have a pickup with out a coil. Secondly there are 2 huge bar magnets under the coil that are creating a large orb like field around the entire coil.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree here. The pole piece induces the flux field through the coil. The magnet is too far from the strings to do much on its own, and a coil with no iron load (air coil) is less efficient than one with a core. This is assuming a coil with steel poles and magnets under the pickup. Obviously with Fender type alnico pickups the poles are the magnets.

If you remove the poles you will have a very inefficient pickup. However, because the strings become magnetized (from when you had the poles installed) you will still hear something, but it will be weak. Put a new set of strings on the instrument and you will have almost zero output from the pickup without poles. This will vary with the type of pickup, with some working better than others.

Also, while the field is a little wide over the poles, it's very easy to hear a drop out when you bend a string away from the pole. You can also measure this with a gauss meter. But you usually have some latitude for not getting the strings lined up directly over the poles.
 
#233
I never said or implied that it would be an "efficient" pickup at all. What I said was, it is the coil that is doing the primary work of the the sensor, the steel and magnets are only assisting the coil. My point was, you "can" make a pickup with "only" a coil with no steel or magnets. The SAME can not be said for a pickup made with just steel or magnets. I did not meant to imply it was "efficient" or a good idea. I was just simply pointing out the steel and magnets are there to assist the coil's function. I also disagree the bar magnet is too far to assist the coil. I have repaired and made many a pickup that have magnets and steel ONLY under the coil and they do a plenty efficient job bringing the strings vibration to the coil. Oh and yeah and I have seen in some rare instances you will get a slight fade on bending a string from the pole piece but you have to bend it very far, and it is very subtle. Try bending the string just past the coil it will drop MUCH more sharply.
Your final paragraph confirms exactly what I was saying, that you say you disagree with. It is not necessary to line up exactly that a pole piece is not a laser focus, but rather a flood field, and the pole piece is not doing the primary work of the sensor. So I do not understand your disagreement.

I spent almost 2 decades as a scientist at a national laboratory in my experience you can not rely solely on your instruments and testing equipment, at some point you have to put it all aside and examine with an unbiased mind with your senses what is "really" going on, and not just what the data and test equipment is telling you.
 
#234
Curtis Novak said:
I spent almost 2 decades as a scientist at a national laboratory in my experience you can not rely solely on your instruments and testing equipment, at some point you have to put it all aside and examine with an unbiased mind with your senses what is "really" going on, and not just what the data and test equipment is telling you.
Click to expand...

I'm not using any equipment to see it doesn't work. I have removed the poles from pickups back in the 70s and saw they didn't work very well. Anyone can try it on a pickup with adjustable poles; assuming you can remove all of them.

The point about the gauss meter is that if you can't read any magnetic field over the pickup where the strings are, it's not going to do very much at all. The poles don't help the coils, the poles conduct the magnetic field to the strings. You need both the coil and the magnetic circuit to make a pickup. The poles are the same as the magnet in this application.

I also have a background in a national lab, but it was defense communications. :)

Regarding pole alignment; we had this discussion over at the Pickup Maker's Forum back in '09. Some people said it makes no difference. So I posted an audio clip of me bending the high E string on a guitar away from the pole of the neck pickup:

Link Removed

Let your ears be the judge, but I can clearly hear a drop in volume as the string bends away from the pole. I could see it on the recorded waveform as well. Obviously bass strings have a larger diameter, and the poles on the pickup are larger, but this will happen on a bass as well.

This is why I decided to use blades instead of poles. I don't have to worry about a bunch of different string spacings.
 
#235
Good enough if you choose to continue split hairs and parse sentences. Do this for us.
Make a recording of a pickup with all the steel removed with the coil right up next to the strings, then make a second recording with the coil removed and just the steel parts in the same placement.
I never said it was good or efficient pickup and have zero desire wasting 5 min on that discussion. I was simply using it as an illustration in my original post, that you took issue with. The illustration was to point out that it is the coil that is doing the primary work of the sensor and it is the steel parts that are only assisting in the sensor. Yes we can split hairs and go way down a rabbit hole on what is best or most efficient, but that was not nor is not my intention.
 
#236
Talk about slitting hairs. How are you going to record a piece of steel with no coil? Please, stick to something logical.

Why don't you record a pickup with no steel poles and the magnets underneath. Then put the poles back in and explain how you had the preamp on the first example all the way up. There is zero practical use in that.

People have been making pickups way before either one of us were born. They figured out they need pole pieces. If pickups worked well with no pole pieces, they would have been out on the market already. You will notice that isn't the case, is it? Because it doesn't work. That includes all of your pickups, doesn't' it? As far as I can see they all have poles.

All we need to do is study the law of induction.

I was just correct some misinformation that can be proven by anyone. I have no interest in getting into a pissing match. I use blades so I have no horse in this race. :bassist:
 
#237
This what really frustrates me with forums, and why I seriously limit where I post. I often get request to join forums but I usually decline b/c I just do not have time or interest to deal with situations like this.
If you look where we are now from where you side railed the conversation in post #232. You quoted part of something I said in a prior post where I was making a simple illustration and you took it out of context and to an extreme I never intended to go. You then felt the need to school me in that it would not make an effective pickup. I NEVER said ANYWHERE it would make a good pickup. I informed you that you misunderstood me and that I was trying to make an illustration of how the coil is the primary part of the pickup and that the steel parts are only there to augment and assist the coil. You went on for a couple more posts attempting to argue with me about something I NEVER said nor implied. So in an attempt to put this to rest I asked you to make a couple of simple recordings in the illustration you took issue with and your response you just what I said in the first quote where you disagreed with me. I just do not know where this is going, but I can say I sure have wasted some time I wish I could have back.

As for pickups made with out magnets and steel parts yeah I have repaired a few vintage ones over the years, and yeah I have made a couple of them for special applications where people have asked for something where I thought it would achieve what they were asking for. My site may not list it, but keep in mind my site has a very very small fraction of the stuff I have created. I am glad you feel the Blade is the perfect pickup. I am not one that believes there is only 1 correct way to make a pickup, nor is there a holy grail of all pickups to which all others are judged inferior. I also do not believe there is such a thing as a bad pickup, even the cheap mass produced Asian pickups. A pickup is simply a sensor its function is to sense. The perfect pickup is the one that does what the artist wants it to do. Over the years I have made some VERY strange pickups for custom projects that I did not see how it would be useful, but in the right hands it was astounding. A pickup is simply a tool and like with an artist there is not 1 perfect brush to which ALL his paintings are made from, nor that all artists agree is the 1 and only brush. Same goes auto mechanics there is not just 1 wrench that does everything. I strive to not limit my thinking and creativity nor my customers freedom of thinking and expression with rules of how an "efficient" or proper pickup "should" be constructed. Rules like that limits creativity and hinders learning new things. I think you can pick that up from me if you have been to my site as it sounds like you have.
man I am done with this conversation... please enjoy the rest of your day. I plan to...
 
#240
The whole pickup assembly is wild and incredible, but the contacts are really excellent. That should make wiring it in a lot easier.

Curtis, will all your pickups have a common cold/GND contact or will you make some that have three contacts (hot/cold/GND) for those brave souls who want to try two DarkNovas in series?
 

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