Aha, I didn't know that. I have only seen BS with ceramic magnets. Some with one magnet, some with two, but always ceramic. Good to know! Good also that you can do custom orders.
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DarkStar Pick Ups
- Thread starter lemongrenades
- Start date
First- I have to start by saying that these pickups look beautiful, Curtis- and if they are anything like the Darkstars I have loved, they will fill a unique void for bassists!
Not to fan the flames, but I have to agree with SGD on this point- and it is the most obvious to me on my duel-Darkstar equipped bass of all the basses and guitars I've ever owned (the closest comparison being the G&L L-series basses I've had which also had one polepiece per string per coil and a similar hot output). I originally had a pickup orientation and polepiece height with my DS's where bending notes higher on the neck would drop the volume dramatically. To counter this, I lowered the polepieces significantly and adjusted the string spacing to get the strings lined up as well as I could- now it requires a huge bend to get the same kind of volume fluctuation. Honestly though- having the polepieces as high as I did originally wasn't really suitable with these pickups to begin with, as they seem to have a much more even and pleasing dynamic response with the poles set lower. If your pickups are similar to the DS's, then it should be noted that they seem to work best with a larger than average clearance between the coil and the strings than most other pickups I've used.
Not sure if "Darkrippers" are the same/similar design as Darkstars, but...the problem with wiring these pickups in series without isolated ground wires is that DS pickups have the polepieces grounded through the metal plates on the back via the negative lead from the pickup, and in series wiring, the negative lead from one pickup is lifted from ground and becomes part of the "hot" circuit- this means that the polepieces on the non-grounded pickup will be part of the "hot" circuit when in series, and will buzz with a fury whenever your hands come near them or you touch them. I was able to easily change the wiring on my DS's to 3 wire when I wired mine with a series/parallel switch though- sounds amazing!
Not to fan the flames, but I have to agree with SGD on this point- and it is the most obvious to me on my duel-Darkstar equipped bass of all the basses and guitars I've ever owned (the closest comparison being the G&L L-series basses I've had which also had one polepiece per string per coil and a similar hot output). I originally had a pickup orientation and polepiece height with my DS's where bending notes higher on the neck would drop the volume dramatically. To counter this, I lowered the polepieces significantly and adjusted the string spacing to get the strings lined up as well as I could- now it requires a huge bend to get the same kind of volume fluctuation. Honestly though- having the polepieces as high as I did originally wasn't really suitable with these pickups to begin with, as they seem to have a much more even and pleasing dynamic response with the poles set lower. If your pickups are similar to the DS's, then it should be noted that they seem to work best with a larger than average clearance between the coil and the strings than most other pickups I've used.
Not sure if "Darkrippers" are the same/similar design as Darkstars, but...the problem with wiring these pickups in series without isolated ground wires is that DS pickups have the polepieces grounded through the metal plates on the back via the negative lead from the pickup, and in series wiring, the negative lead from one pickup is lifted from ground and becomes part of the "hot" circuit- this means that the polepieces on the non-grounded pickup will be part of the "hot" circuit when in series, and will buzz with a fury whenever your hands come near them or you touch them. I was able to easily change the wiring on my DS's to 3 wire when I wired mine with a series/parallel switch though- sounds amazing!
Exactly why I asked that question two pages ago.
I'd already had to do that mod on a couple of single-coils and while it's not overly difficult, it's not for the squeamish either.
- Aug 19, 2012
- 47
- 24
- Disclosures
- Pickup Artist at Curtis Novak Classic Pickups
I really do not want to get way into all this again, I still agree with this as well and also still stands with my initial argument. I never said or implied that the steel pole pieces did not effect the tone. My point was they are not the primary element of the pickup they are only there to increase the sensitivity and direct it to the coil. By having the pole pieces so much higher than the coil this puts the coil much further from the strings making the pole pieces act like a remote microphone to the coil. So yes you would be getting more of a direct effect of the pole pieces and bends would causing fading in that case. When you lowered the pole pieces into the pickup you are now allowing the coil and steel to more evenly work together.
- Aug 19, 2012
- 47
- 24
- Disclosures
- Pickup Artist at Curtis Novak Classic Pickups
Do you mean for an isolated ground? It is as simple as detaching the wire from the coil that is soldered to ground and attaching it to its own lead wire, and have a sepetate wire that is soldered to the metal frame to ground on your bass.
Cool- I guess I misunderstood the whole back-and-forth. The effect I got with the poles raised on my Darkstars was not quite like anything I have experienced before in the range of dynamic response it put out, but made playing smoothly and evenly quite a chore. It was almost like having a microphone up against the strings!
Can't wait to hear some feedback on these new BiSonics- I could definitely see a new bass with these sometime in my (semi-distant) future!
- Aug 19, 2012
- 47
- 24
- Disclosures
- Pickup Artist at Curtis Novak Classic Pickups
If you made a small platform to set the entire pickup on to raise it closer to the strings you will get a much better result with out the extream fading on the bends.
Unfortunately in my case, the DS's were my own install in an old Jazz bass, and I found out the hard way that they really benefit from a pretty large clearance from the strings vs a standard P or J pickup (which was the stock setup on the old Starfire basses vs. the Fender-style design of my bass). Luckily the DSs sound phenomenal with the polepieces set low on my bass, but having more clearance would have given me more room for adjustment without getting some of the harsher sounds that can happen with these pickups set too high (including beating/intonation problems if the polepieces are raised to the level I would consider normal on a Jazz bass for example!). At least in the case of Darkstars, they seem to have a stronger magnetic pull than the average Fender-style pickup, so really do benefit from greater distance from the strings.
Sunbeast, do you think you could measure the distance between strings and poles? I have had these issues at all. On my Hagström Coronado, the bridge pickup has a higher chrome frame than on the neck pickup (which is the same as on DSs). Because of this the bridge pickup is very close to the strings, closer than i have had on any bass. It sounds fantastic and I usually only use the bridge pickup.
I currently have a fretless neck on that bass and the top of each pickup casing is just a bit more than 1/8" from the G string when depressing the string at the end of the fretboard, and slightly farther on the E string side. I have a pickguard mount underneath the bridge pickup to get it up to the height of the neck pickup. I keep the polepieces set to the countour of the neck, but not raised much if at all above the pickup covers (a little higher on the bridge pickup to balance in volume with the neck). As it is setup now, it sounds amazing, but if I raise the polepieces even 1/32" or so at the neck the dynamics can start to get out of hand, and if I set them about 1/16" higher on both pickups I can start to have intonation issues depending on the strings I am using).
I originally had a fretted neck on this bass and had the pickups mounted on top of a pickguard which gave a similar clearance as it has now (with the lower action of the fretless neck, I removed the pickguard because the strings were too close to the pickups with it installed).
On a one pickup bass the effect of the magnets on the strings would be diminished quite a bit, and if only your bridge pickup is right up against the strings, you are probably less likely to have issues- on my bass both pickups are necessarily close to the strings (I would have to shim the bridge/neck or countersink the pickups into the body to get more clearance). I am also not sure how close the magnet/design of the Darkstar REALLY is to the original Bisonics I assume are in your Coronado- I know Fred fooled around with a couple different magnet and coil configurations, and in the process probably came up with a recipe noticeably different acting from the original.
Regardless of all of that- my Darkstar'd bass DOES sound amazing- I just wanted to add my experience to those who might wish to add these pickups to an existing bass, as they seem to be pretty sensitive to distance from the strings! While they work great on my bass, I probably wouldn't suggest them to anyone who has much less clearance available on their instrument (it is much easier/cleaner to add shims to raise the pickups than it is to try to raise the plane of the strings or countersink the pickups to get more clearance!).
I originally had a fretted neck on this bass and had the pickups mounted on top of a pickguard which gave a similar clearance as it has now (with the lower action of the fretless neck, I removed the pickguard because the strings were too close to the pickups with it installed).
On a one pickup bass the effect of the magnets on the strings would be diminished quite a bit, and if only your bridge pickup is right up against the strings, you are probably less likely to have issues- on my bass both pickups are necessarily close to the strings (I would have to shim the bridge/neck or countersink the pickups into the body to get more clearance). I am also not sure how close the magnet/design of the Darkstar REALLY is to the original Bisonics I assume are in your Coronado- I know Fred fooled around with a couple different magnet and coil configurations, and in the process probably came up with a recipe noticeably different acting from the original.
Regardless of all of that- my Darkstar'd bass DOES sound amazing- I just wanted to add my experience to those who might wish to add these pickups to an existing bass, as they seem to be pretty sensitive to distance from the strings! While they work great on my bass, I probably wouldn't suggest them to anyone who has much less clearance available on their instrument (it is much easier/cleaner to add shims to raise the pickups than it is to try to raise the plane of the strings or countersink the pickups to get more clearance!).
Well, thank you kindly for sharing. Always good to have different perspectives and experiences. I sold my DS bass. The pickups were lower on that than on my Coronado. It sounded great too. I will experiment a bit on my -69 Starfire which I just bought.
that's one of the reason I redesign mines... setting was just boring and inadequate.
I have a "theoretical question" about the pickup's construction. Do the adjustment screws and connecting plate become magnetized and create a secondary sensor point? Or perhaps over time? Assuming they are ferrous, they will eventually become magnetized by contact with a magnet, In this case, the pole they adjust. Would they then contribute to the magnetic field, as they become more magnetized? I wonder this for 2 reasons. The old Starfires became re-popular in a hurry. And the last time I had mine out (before it was stolen) I received more compliments on my tone than any bass I had ever owned - including that same Starfire 20 years earlier. Feel free to chalk this up to a stupid question or idle curiosity.
- Aug 21, 2008
- 10,386
- 253
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- Disclosures
- Owner, SGD Music Products
Yes, they probably become magnetized, as do your strings.
Maybe. The magnets magnetize the strings, which then pass through the field, and disturb it making current flow through the coil. But the poles that pass through the coil are inducing the movement of the strings into the coil.
The adjustment screws would be the name polarity field at their tips, and it would be rather weak. They might widen the aperture slightly, but one would have to test the pickup with and without them to know for sure.
