David Goldflies & The Bros, why didn't it work out with Gregg?

[Bass V]

from '79-'81 he was imo the perfect bass sound for the ABB as the '80s sound usurped most of rock music giving them a good taste of the old Berry flavor yet updated with his stylish Alembic perkiness which seemed to jell perfectly with the Toler / Betts era boys. but it's often said Gregg wasn't so thrilled and eventually wanted him out as some members continued a tumultuous path for many years of uneven releases. was it really Gregg vs David or were others involved in the unhappy marriage as well that caused further change, label pressure for hits, or just collateral damage from the tough times they faced internally and externally? for me there's far too few examples of the band in top form at that stage of their career to enjoy and David always excels.

 

[jerry]

I've always dug Goldflies playing, but in Gregg's book he made it clear Goldflies was his least favorite Allman Brother bassist. I'm of the personal opinion that ALL the bassist in that band brought something cool to the table.

 

[40Hz]

I never thought the Alembic sound he had (which I admire in its own right) really fit the vibe for Greg Allman or the ABB.

Dave told a story of how when he met Betts he was plaing a Ric, and being told by Dickie it wouldn’t work. So the story goes, Dickie lent Dave a JB which is what he used to audition and initially record with for the albums he played on.

But Dave then bought and used an Alembic onstage. And I think it was as simple as Greg just not liking his bass tone. Something I think Betts tried to clue him in about when he originally handed Dave a JB.

 

[Gluvhand]

I seem to remember a Guild bass ad with Goldflies. Don't know if he ever used one though.

 

[Gluvhand]

 

[Bass V]

^ looks fretless and v cool

I don't recall reading that aspect in his book, thanx for the perspective.
funny how Gregg might have grumbled about the bass tone when he was following cues to go for a more modern keyboard dominated sound with the guitars secondary, but then he could have just been so locked into the Berry sound that he had to have it. to me DG became a great hybrid of what was and the best of what their sound had evolved (maybe devolved?) to in those mixed up daze, heh, maybe David should have been given the driving wheel with a heavier jam focus which happened later with Warren and Woody's arrival. as it was that era kicked up some sparks, too bad they didn't really catch fire.

 

[s_wood]

I always liked David Goldflies and his tone, though he did tend towards the bright/piano end of the spectrum. I don’t think that the problem was that he played Alembics, though. Lamar Williams, who had the gig before Goldflies, often played an Alembic (before his was stolen). Allan Woody, who replaced Goldflies when the band reformed, also played an Alembic (along with a Thunderbird) and recorded with one, too.

If I had to guess, the real problem was that call please Goldflies had more of a fusion/lots of notes approach than the others, especially during jams. There was probably some band politics involved, too. I remember reading somewhere – maybe an Alan Paul’s excellent book “One Way Out” - that Betts would encourage Goldflies to play more, while Allman would tell him to stay in the pocket.

We’ve all been there, right?

 

[Passinwind]

There was probably some band politics involved, too. I remember reading somewhere – maybe an Alan Paul’s excellent book “One Way Out” - that Betts would encourage Goldflies to play more, while Allman would tell him to stay in the pocket.

We’ve all been there, right?

Yep. A friend of mine was the Tech Director for the ABB at that time, and his onstage duties included being both keyboard tech and bass tech. I worked on a few shows with him and it wasn't exactly too hard to discern a Gregg vs. The World thing going on. I thought the band actually sounded great on all the shows of that era that I caught, but the feel was certainly different from when Berry or Lamar were in the bass chair. Rook was the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet, and a really great player. I have to believe he could've played in a more classical ABB style if requested to, and motivated to side with whoever was requesting it. The band politics were palpably toxic and I've often felt that I dodged a bullet by not getting hired on to the tech crew, which seemed like a decent possibility for a while.

 

[msw]

Great thread. Lamar seems to be really underrated in my opinion. His playing on Brothers and Sisters and later in Sea Level is both soulful and impeccable. My guess is while David Goldflies played really well, his tone was too bright and he was too busy. Barry Oakley was able to combine an excellent time feel, deep pocket, great sound and include his groundbreaking style of occasional counterpoint to Duane and Dickie’s solos. BO’s approach became a model for all future bass players in the ABB. Despite many ups and downs, the ABB was always served very well by all of the bassists in the band. I really liked them all though for me Barry is still the one that I keep going back to listen to over and over.

 

[grrg63]

Great player but the sound of Alembics is always just grating to me.

 

[Bass V]

Berry is still the one that I keep going back to listen to over and over.

the band maintained that distinct sound forever more as did Gregg whenever he played, it was his home, but it
certainly sounds like bad timing for David, and maybe anybody if the environment couldn't support it's own self in the Brotherly fashion. the upside is we got 3 yrs to talk about and evidence that in spite of the turmoil DG and company could have been as good as any ABB version if we lived in a perfect world.
my Gregg Allman Experience is too fun to remember to not enjoy telling every time possible;
Doug Weston had a deal he'd offer whenever he spotted budding talent around his Santa Monica Bl. club, the iconic Troubadour, a 1 week freebie (with advertisement) in exchange for the same when they were big. I caught 2 of those nites in the middle of the week for Gregg's return in support of the whole band, the first of the 2 being the evening he met Cher and of course employed the house band The Section (Lee Sklar) as his backup who opened with their own set in this intimate setting. come Wed. nite I've got my seat next to the B3 and you can just imagine. Thurs. we're seated nicely amidst the crowd and when it's Gregg's time it was in a different setting with only a bar stool on the bare stage. eventually a golden figure appeared nearly dragging a beautiful Martin and barely makes it to the seat whereupon in a big arm swoop of his mane out of his face he just kept rolling backwards until all boots and blue jeans on his head out cold center stage. we loved it. you couldn't pay any amount nowadays for moments like either of those nites, my only regret is having missed the other 3 nites worth of fun, if in fact there was another show...

 

[IamGroot]

Wonder what Gregs chemical dependency was at the time. I know lots of musicians that played well when wiped, but none that has good judgement skills

 

[hangman]

Here's a pic of Greg with Alembic bass. Not sure who it belongs to.

 

[IamGroot]

Gregs autobiography is a good read. He said Berry just attached himself to Duane musically and socially and they became inseperable. Berrys lines changed subtley after Duanes death, I dont know Berry and Dickies working relationship, but the band veered off in a heavily Dickie influenced direction while Greg mourned and found solace in chemicals.
.

 

[jerry]

FWIW, after Berry died it was always Dickie that insisted the bassist play with a pick.

 

[IamGroot]

FWIW, after Berry died it was always Dickie that insisted the bassist play with a pick.

Did not know that.

 

[JimmyJammin]

I think Rook had a a background in playing that didn’t jive particularly well with the “blues, pocket, lock in with the kick, etc...” type playing that the band was familiar with.....and probably needed.
I seriously doubt it was solely his tone. I agree, his tone was competing with the guitars. Very aggressive, as was fitting with the many notes that often competed with the guitars. Let the bass do what the bass needs to do for the job.
Rook was very talented, without doubt. But his playing was always in front of the beat. And, a bunch of notes in places that almost competed with the classic lead rides on guitar!

I’m sure Gregg would’ve had no problem to tell David to chill on that tone. David was a hired gun. He’s suppose to sound like the boss wants.....but then again....you could argue the same point on his playing. I’m just posing the question.

My biggest revelation was when I saw him play with a Carl Thompson bass!!! Wow! That’s something to take notice of! ....and Claypool wasn’t even born yet! (Maybe?).
JimmyJam

 

[Muddslide]

Great player but the sound of Alembics is always just grating to me.

Some people make them sound wonderful, but decades back I scrimped and saved for an Alembic and just did not care for any sound I could get out of it.

In fact, that was when I discovered I simply do not care at all for active electronics. I've tried many active basses since then and...nope. Not for me.

MMs are the only ones I can work with at all, but I doubt I'll ever own one.

Some people work magic with them though.

 

[MrLenny1]

IMO the Alembic does not pair well with the ABB sound although Barry had hot rodded a P bass.
Lots of factors can come into play but some bands were very specific about the P Bass sound.
I read Stephen Stills was insistant about having a P bass for CSN&Y.
Hats off to Barry for playing some great lines with a great band.

 

[s_wood]

IMO the Alembic does not pair well with the ABB sound although Barry had hot rodded a P bass.

Lamar Williams, who replaced Berry Oakley, played an Alembic pretty often (until it was stolen). Allen Woody, who replaced Dave Goldflies, often played an Alembic live (when he wasn’t playing a Thunderbird) and he also recorded most of his ABB tracks with an Alembic.

It wasn’t the bass, but rather the way he played it. At least, that’s what Gregg said in his autobiography. Besides, there is no such thing as “an Alembic sound”. John McVie - Alembic. John Entwistle - Alembic. Phil Lesh - Alembic. Not to mention Dave Goldflies and Allen Woody. None of those guys had anything remotely close to the same tone.