DAW export to MP3 and maintaining volume

[tothemax]

I've been finding that when I export tracks from my DAW that the volume is extremely low. Stereo output bus levels are set to "0" with levels in the green (with the random clip). These are simply exports of the main mix without a full mastering step. When I play the mix from my DAW the volume is good, but on Export there seems to be a significant volume cut.
My DAW is Cakewalk, but I've seen similar posts with other DAW products as well. I'd like to understand where the issue is so I can correct it going forward...

Thanks

 

[Tosh]

I almost always normalize my MP3 exports. The guys in my band want to listen to them on Bluetooth speakers anyway, so there's no need for me to preserve the original dynamic range.

I use Logic.

 

[silky smoove]

I'm not familiar with Cakewalk, but it's possible that its output section has independent controls from the actual 2buss. Cubase, for instance, has a control room function that allows for this sort of thing. Is that a possibility in Cakewalk?

If not, I would expect playback to be 1:1 between a DAW with the 2buss set at 0dbfs and the exported file, assuming no normalization is enabled at export. If it is enabled, I would expect the exported file to be louder than the level of the 2buss if it never reaches 0dbfs within the DAW.

 

[tothemax]

I've been watching a few YouTubes on Normalizing and Mastering and may be onto the issue. Part of it may be related to multiple listening volume controls. The Tascam interface has individual output volume controls for the headphones and the studio monitors (Master L&R). I'm using a "hybrid" system, using the insert channels from my analog mixer into the interface line inputs (because it's easier when we are recording to adjust the board). Even with the EQ section of the interface bypassed, the line inputs are still going through the software channels which is part of the signal chain (I keep them set at "0" and was hoping that it would be a pass through). When the signal hits the DAW (Cakewalk) it may need to be compensated so that level matches the level of the mixer, and then the interface. What seems to be happening is when the signal gets to the DAW there is really no headroom, so there must be some loss from the signal chain.

Some is technical, some is basic, like using the level monitors instead of your ears... Going to try a few projects this weekend.

Interface Output Bus


Interface channel monitor


DAW Bus and tracks

 

[tothemax]

Did some testing today, the mixer is the weak link in the signal chain. Made a comparison between the Behringer channel inserts (pre-EQ/Fader) and direct outs (post-EQ\Fader) both line level signals are very low by the time they hit the USB interface (the direct out significantly lower than the inserts). It does beg the question why the line out levels are low when the unit works fine as a PA. The Xenyx preamps are not the greatest, but they seem to work OK for live gigs. Could be one of those Behringer quirks.

If the mixer is out of the signal chain and run everything direct to the Tascam USB, signal levels are much better with plenty of headroom (with the Behringer pre's, they had to be almost maxed to see -12db on the USB channel). The Tascam higher quality preamps seem to make better recordings. The whole point of integrating the mixer with the USB interface was to be able to easily record tracks when we are practicing in the studio. It does work to a degree, just not the best method for making quality tracks.

The export volume is still not resolved. I'll need to keep working on that, there must be a setting in the DAW or a step that I'm missing.

 

[Tosh]

... why (are) the line out levels are low when the unit works fine as a PA. The Xenyx preamps are not the greatest, but they seem to work OK for live gigs. Could be one of those Behringer quirks.

I blame the A/D converters for that. I'm assuming your input to the PA is analog, whereas the USB output goes through an A -> D conversion.

SWAG - Some Wild Assed Guess

 

[tothemax]

Thanks for taking a SWAG,

Actually I don't use the USB output from the board, it sends the main stereo mix only. To get individual tracks I have to use the channel Inserts or Direct outputs, which should be analog. I'm thinking there are just too many variables, between the mixer output and the Tascam software before hitting the DAW, must be missing a setting somewhere on the DAW side.

Appreciate the feedback... As mentioned, am hoping to upgrade to a Tascam Model 16 later this summer and have direct outs from the board. In the short term I'd like to figure this out. Cakewalk has a lot of features that seem to work well.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I've been finding that when I export tracks from my DAW that the volume is extremely low. Stereo output bus levels are set to "0" with levels in the green (with the random clip). These are simply exports of the main mix without a full mastering step. When I play the mix from my DAW the volume is good, but on Export there seems to be a significant volume cut.
My DAW is Cakewalk, but I've seen similar posts with other DAW products as well. I'd like to understand where the issue is so I can correct it going forward...

Thanks

I don't know about Cakewalk (haven't touched it in 20 years), but in Pro Tools when you select a bus to bounce from, you're actually printing the input of that bus ; so your bounce / print / export (choose your vernacular) would be missing any automation, and plugins associated with that bus - you need to actually bounce the next bus in line, to include the output of the bus you want (Pro Tools now has hardware outputs, that you can select as your bounce source, so there's less confusion).

A couple of things that will help you get a handle on your input / output.

Input :

"Line Up" your studio, so that the gain stages between devices are consistent, and learn to use and trust your meters.

Output :

Calibrate your speakers, and learn to use and trust your metres.


Depending on how dynamic the material you're creating is, and it's intended purpose, will dictate how best to calibrate.

For example, if you're creating dynamic sound mixes for cinema release, on a mixing stage, you'll probably want to operate with about 20dBFS headroom, calibrated at 85dB(C) SPL.

If you're creating full-on loud rock, with not much dynamic range, in a small home studio, you may only need to operate with 14dBFS headroom, calibrated at around 79dB(C) SPL - but even that might be deafening.

 

[tothemax]

Mystery solved... Thanks W & W,
I did go through the bus configurations and the Exports are actually fine, level readings are accurate. The issue was with the volume control on line outputs 1 and 2 where my monitors are connected. I use outputs 3 & 4 to send the USB main mix (DAW) out to my mixer (2-track In). I switched the 1 & 2 with 3 & 4 and immediately the output volume was fine. Switching back, to get comparable volume the volume control for outputs 1 & 2 had to be maxed. sometimes the easy stuff just isn't apparent.
As you can see in the ASIO panel, both the headphone jack and line outs 1 & 2 have individual volume controls, I didn't realize that the raw signal would be 100% of that output.

When the DAW is in focus the computer access to the speakers is bypassed (US 16x08 master L & R).

I will need to work a bit more with the DAW bus configuration, but all seems to be working for now.