Double Bass DB and physical fitness?

[TroyK]

...one of my teachers told me that building up the kind of muscle these sports involve would tense up my playing.

I pretty strongly disagree with that notion. When learning to do something unfamiliar we tend to carry counter productive tension in our bodies, but when we develop skill in it, almost no matter what it is, we learn to do it without tension. Dance, certainly most martial arts, typing, etc. I find the same to be true for playing bass or singing for that matter. Developing the skill to not work against yourself muscularly is portable from one activity to the next. Unless you're doing it wrong, I can't see why any of those things should hurt your bass playing (hand injuries aside)

...the time we have to spend practicing our instruments takes up too much time to be playing sports.

Well, that's quite valid, unfortunately.

 

[AClark]

This thread is really interesting/helpful for me because I've been having issues with tendonitis and a lot of back pain.
I go to a performing arts high school so they have some pretty decent instruments, but I noticed the one I use during school is slightly bigger then my personal bass and it takes a lot more energy and strength to play it and I feel really tense while playing it.

Could this be the reason I'm having issues with tendonitis? Im sure it could be a lot of things, but would it be worth switching basses? Any suggestions? It's kind of a bummer because I'm only 17 and I'm already having physical affects from playing bass

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Do you stand side on to the wall?

Yup - prepare to scream like a little girl!

 

[Steve Freides]

I feel like I ought to chime in on this one. I'm 56 years old, a former amateur distance runner who now has several powerlifting age/weight class gold medals and world records to his credit in the AAU, and I'm also someone who trains trainers (a Team Leader in the RKC program).

The answer to all these questions is, "It depends.". As others have observed, being strong and not being overweight are indisputably good things for everyone, period. But what works for each of us will be different.

Anyone wanting to add exercise to an otherwise sedentary life should start with a complete physical exam from their doctor, and follow that by a one-on-one session with some sort of fitness pro/coach/trainer. My personal recommendation is to get a Functional Movement Screen done because it'll tell you if you've got any glaring problems that could be predictors of future injury. Another good choice of post-doctor, pre-exercise person would be some schooled in something called Z Health - again, their focus is on how well you move before - before is important - you undertake an exercise program.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. Anyone interest in some articles by me and some links to specific books and the like can look at a web site of mine here: http://www.kbnj.com

-S-

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The answer to all these questions is, "It depends.". As others have observed, being strong and not being overweight are indisputably good things for everyone, period. But what works for each of us will be different.

Anyone wanting to add exercise to an otherwise sedentary life should start with a complete physical exam from their doctor, and follow that by a one-on-one session with some sort of fitness pro/coach/trainer. My personal recommendation is to get a Functional Movement Screen done because it'll tell you if you've got any glaring problems that could be predictors of future injury. Another good choice of post-doctor, pre-exercise person would be some schooled in something called Z Health - again, their focus is on how well you move before - before is important - you undertake an exercise program.

This is great advice. Each body is different, and each stage of life is different. Back when I was lifting weights - nothing like what Steve is talking about, but for me it was a lot - I wasted almost 2 years in the gym doing things wrong. Eventually I realized that I needed some help and got a trainer for a few months to help me set some goals and show me how to slowly go about heading in their direction. This included both diet and exercise, and completely changed the way I was doing things for the better. That was almost 20 years ago now, but I still remember the things she taught me to this day, especially the value of lifting lighter weights and making the motions ssslllllloooooooowwwwwww rather than fast, and how to develop a more balanced program.

Since this is the DB forum, dare I say "get a teacher".. at least for a little while to set you on the right path.

 

[powerbass]

I'm 49, I started playing DB a year ago. I also happen to be a massage therapist and personal trainer specializing in rehab, sports injuries and fitness training. I see both sides of the fence. In my first year of playing I easily could have developed an injury - knowing what i know meant I had to do be my own client and treat myself. A few times I thought I would have to stop, fortunately I found a great teacher who has great technique. I have also treated a few pro musicians who had to stop playing due to injuries. The physical fitness field has been going through a sea change over the past 10 years. It is common now for personal trainers to know the latest info on spinal rehab, self massage, biomechanics and therapeutic exercise - working with a knowledgeable coach/trainer can be extremely helpful making the body more injury resistant. Repetitive strain injuries have multiple factors. Some possible factors are poor posture due to muscle weakness or tightness, poor technique, poor instrument set up, inadequate rest (too much playing), poor nutrition etc. The sooner these issues are addressed the better, the longer the injury continues the worse it gets and other issues compile. There is often a psychological component to RS injuries - poor self awareness (muscling through the pain), not resting, denial of pain, over tightening the body due to excessive stress, anxiety, tension. Unfortunately most health care practitioners only see what they are trained to see. Ideally a team approach can be very effective. Pilates, Yoga, Alexander Technique all deal with how the inner self manifests through the body. Mindfulness, smooth breathing, relaxing the whole body, learning to play smarter and not harder can all help the RS sufferer. P.S. I teach all my clients how to perform self massage using tennis balls, foam rollers and medicine balls. These are cheap tools that are extremely valuable in improving the quality of soft tissue and restoring proper mobility to muscle, tendons and nerves. This is what I use on myself when I am feeling symptoms of over playing.

 

[Rosebud]

Yeah I can see where being a massage therapist would help in the upright bass learning thought process. Just scanning all these posts lot's of good info. Fred

 

[bejoyous]

I thought I'd contribute my thoughts on this subject. I'm 46 and have always been overweight.

I'm really not one to go to the gym and doing a prescribed regimen of activities. I'm also not a person who likes to be part of a scheduled sports team due to the time requirement and with my schedule as a free-lance musician and supply teacher, I literally don't know what I am doing the next day. (Also being fat when growing up, I've never been good at team sports anyway.)

I've tried doing laps and/or treadmilling while my daughter has karate lessons but I found that to be quite boring and doing that for 15 minutes sustained seemed like an uphill battle. (Excuse the pun.) I've tried yoga, aerobics, swimming, weights, tai chi, etc. but it never really did anything for me.

But, what I have discovered that I really love and is a healthy activity is hiking with trekking poles in the natural areas around my city.

I've been doing this for a year now and my physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health, has improved greatly. I can get out about 1-3 times per week.

When I have the time, I can easily be moving for 3+ hours and if I choose, I can listen to music while I am at it. I get fresh air, it's usually shaded in the forest, I see animals and plant change with the seasons and occasionally discover an interesting natural or historical artifact (skulls, native stone tools and so on).

As for the hiking poles, I just use some straight branches that I've modified. They give my hands, arms and shoulders a work out and increase the safety factor significantly.

Musically, I've noticed my playing stamina has improved because I'm in better shape and my body is stronger. Plus my head is a lot clearer so I can concentrate better while performing.

 

[Rosebud]

I'm thinking about these topics lately becasue I'm becoming a CNA certified nursing assistant, I still love playing music. Men get made to lift people a lot, (as much or more than women in these areas of healthcare), so body mechanics are super important.

 

[powerbass]

Bejoyous hit a nail on the head. If you don't like regular types of exercise you have to find some activity that is enjoyable and tolerable yet at the same that still stimulates your body to get stronger etc.

 

[Steve Freides]

Yes, bejoyous gets it right for himself. Any program of regular physical activity that makes you feel better and doesn't get you hurt is way, way better than no regular exercise at all. Everything past that is just the details.

-S-

 

[bejoyous]

Wow, people actually listening to what I have to say. It's a nice change. (After all, who pays attention to a supply teacher and a free-lance bassist at the back of the section? Might as well take advice from a janitor or a taxi driver....Wait, I've done that, too!)

Anyway, here's some photos I've made of my forest finds. Click on a photo to see a larger image and a satellite map showing the location it was taken.

 

[bejoyous]

I borrowed a friend's video camera and made a few videos of some of my favourite hiking areas.

Hiking with Beethoven 7 - See a couple of grandmother trees, a couple of cliffs and a wild turkey. (The high frame rate and anti-shake technology makes some of the images blurry though.)

Hiking with Beethoven 6 - See a cliff, some flooded areas and a Iroquois village.

Staffordshire Woods - See a hawk's nest, a wrecked car in a crater and a fugitive's shelter.

 

[gerry grable]

I've been playng since 1961. During that time I never have experienced any serious problems, other than an occasional blister, a broken nail or a sore muscle. My stamina was always excellent-- and we used to play six hour gigs! All that time I was playing 99.9% pizz. It has only been during the last couple of years that I really started playing with the bow that the kaka hit the fan. I some how hurt my left shoulder joint while stretching to play in the upper thumb positions. If I go higher than the C before the D harmonic on the G string it hurts like hell.
So, should I simply stop doing that, or should I endure and hope it will go away? Basically keep playing or lay off for a few weeks?

 

[Slagzeug]

I have been introduced to the world of pain while playing the bass as a result of playing more this summer than i ever have before in my life which is a VERY good thing). I had the attitude that if I practice I wouldn't have enough stamina to make it through my gigs and recording sessions. I have almost done a 180 in thinking so now my theory is I need to practice being as relaxed as possible and keep my posture and technique as clean and stable as possible so when I do play it's effortless.

I have also been turned on to Mudras (hand yoga), lifting 5-10 pound free weights (wrist curls, holding them with first two fingers behind my head) and Ikedo hand stretches.

Now as long as I do these stretches every day and don't let myself play bad technique for even one note I can live and play pain free.

 

[Don Higdon]

It has only been during the last couple of years that I really started playing with the bow that the kaka hit the fan. I some how hurt my left shoulder joint while stretching to play in the upper thumb positions. If I go higher than the C before the D harmonic on the G string it hurts like hell.
So, should I simply stop doing that, or should I endure and hope it will go away? Basically keep playing or lay off for a few weeks?

You shouldn't have to strain to reach any customarily played note.
I used to think the bass had to be higher to play in thumb position. Wrong. That's when you start twisting, straining, and interfering with the natural curves of the spine. I lowered the bass. I reach thumb position by unlocking my knee joints and hinging at the hip sockets rather than arching the spine.
You should release your spine into length while maintaining the natural lumbar, thoracic, and cervical curves. If you get the setting right, you won't have to contort yourself.
This was illustrated in the ISB magazine some years ago.
To "endure and hope it will go away" is a sure way to fail.

 

[LouisF]

And then there's this:

Music Students Hit the Boxing Ring - WSJ.com


Louis

 

[Eric Hochberg]

You shouldn't have to strain to reach any customarily played note.

Gerry, make sure your bass has a good neck angle and overstand. Makes the high notes easier to get to. Many older basses are deficient in that department.

 

[TroyK]

I thought I'd contribute my thoughts on this subject. I'm 46 and have always been overweight.

I'm really not one to go to the gym and doing a prescribed regimen of activities. I'm also not a person who likes to be part of a scheduled sports team due to the time requirement and with my schedule as a free-lance musician and supply teacher, I literally don't know what I am doing the next day. (Also being fat when growing up, I've never been good at team sports anyway.)

I've tried doing laps and/or treadmilling while my daughter has karate lessons but I found that to be quite boring and doing that for 15 minutes sustained seemed like an uphill battle. (Excuse the pun.) I've tried yoga, aerobics, swimming, weights, tai chi, etc. but it never really did anything for me.

But, what I have discovered that I really love and is a healthy activity is hiking with trekking poles in the natural areas around my city.

I've been doing this for a year now and my physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health, has improved greatly. I can get out about 1-3 times per week.

When I have the time, I can easily be moving for 3+ hours and if I choose, I can listen to music while I am at it. I get fresh air, it's usually shaded in the forest, I see animals and plant change with the seasons and occasionally discover an interesting natural or historical artifact (skulls, native stone tools and so on).

As for the hiking poles, I just use some straight branches that I've modified. They give my hands, arms and shoulders a work out and increase the safety factor significantly.

Musically, I've noticed my playing stamina has improved because I'm in better shape and my body is stronger. Plus my head is a lot clearer so I can concentrate better while performing.

I posted in this thread a month ago, but just caught myself up on what's been said since then. The quote above really is a good story. Mine's not quite the same, but there are parallels. I have some chronic health problems, that for the most part are well managed, but omni-present. I went through a few years of the dreaded bassist shoulder problems.

It also took me a while to find the right activity and establish the habit of health and fitness, but when I did, everything was better. My bass playing, the noise in my head, pain, energy, sleep, everything. It's not the same solution for everyone and it doesn't really matter that much what you're doing. Some people also do fine without, our bodies and souls are different. For me, I need exercise and I'd be a pile of dust if I didn't do my best to maintain that balance.

Telling a student that any form of exercise would be bad for his bass playing is misguided at best.

 

[powerbass]

I was at a bass lesson this week and my teacher, who is a pro, mentioned pain in the third finger on his left hand. He thought it was arthritis and was concerned. I watched him play and he and I talked about his playing. It was obvious the finger was hyperextending and was weak. It is a simple fix with the correct finger exercises and mental attention to playing technique. I mention this because even great players develop injuries. Attending to symptoms early and engaging in proactive measures will address many muscle/joint injuries. What I learned from this experience is my teacher can point out deficits in my playing technique that I am not aware exist. And I can spot deficits in his body function that he wasn't initially aware of. This is a good team approach for injuries - someone who knows bodies and a teacher who knows good bass technique.