Has anyone encountered this? I have seen it at a few clubs we play recently! They have installed a digital dB meter with a sign that read DO NOT EXCEED 104 dB, for an example. I have seen the signs say 99 dB up to 105 dB!
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dB meters at clubs?
- Thread starter DWA2469
- Start date
Not in clubs, but I've seen it in a few private event venues. Some have been in clear line of sight to the stage, but one was around a corner and we were somehow expected to just know when we crossed that line. We tasked one of the guys on the soundcrew with periodically walking around the corner to placate the venue.
I subbed on an event where one of the organizers was monitoring with an iPhone dB meter, and any time we got too loud he'd come waiving his hands like there was a fire. His volume requirement was so low that the drummer put his sticks away and literally started finger-tapping his kit. For context, this was in an exhibition hall that had a capacity of over 1,000 for an event attended by maybe 200 people. Definitely the kind of thing where you want the band at whisper volume.
I subbed on an event where one of the organizers was monitoring with an iPhone dB meter, and any time we got too loud he'd come waiving his hands like there was a fire. His volume requirement was so low that the drummer put his sticks away and literally started finger-tapping his kit. For context, this was in an exhibition hall that had a capacity of over 1,000 for an event attended by maybe 200 people. Definitely the kind of thing where you want the band at whisper volume.
I played a casino that had a strict volume rule and I did see the DB device.
Yes, I've played clubs that had a DB meter on the wall facing the stage. I've played casinos and other venues that had handheld meters they could use to show if you were getting too loud, too.
Last one I played one it had a colour system and we went in the red and never got cut.
Think they had doctored it...?
But generally we won't play those places.
Think they had doctored it...?
But generally we won't play those places.
Seen it in a couple of places, also facing the stage. Interesting...my recollection at one place was 90-something but I just looked at a clip I took from the stage and it's clear enough to see...bouncing around between 102 and 105.
Of course proximity to the sound source plays a role in the decibel level at the listener's ears, but here are some basic stats.
Decibel Levels and Damage Timeframes
- 85 dB: The threshold for damage; safe for only 8 hours.
- 90–95 dB: Hazardous for extended periods; damage possible in ~50 minutes.
- 100 dB: Harmful after just 15 minutes.
- 110 dB: Dangerous in just 2 minutes.
- 120+ dB: Immediate, permanent damage possible.
Common Noise Sources
- 60 dB: Normal conversation.
- 85 dB: Blender, garbage disposal, heavy traffic.
- 90-100 dB: Lawnmowers, chainsaws, subways, motorcycles.
- 105-110 dB: Concerts, sporting events, headphones at maximum volume.
- 120-140 dB: Sirens, firearms, fireworks
Decibel Levels and Damage Timeframes
- 85 dB: The threshold for damage; safe for only 8 hours.
- 90–95 dB: Hazardous for extended periods; damage possible in ~50 minutes.
- 100 dB: Harmful after just 15 minutes.
- 110 dB: Dangerous in just 2 minutes.
- 120+ dB: Immediate, permanent damage possible.
Common Noise Sources
- 60 dB: Normal conversation.
- 85 dB: Blender, garbage disposal, heavy traffic.
- 90-100 dB: Lawnmowers, chainsaws, subways, motorcycles.
- 105-110 dB: Concerts, sporting events, headphones at maximum volume.
- 120-140 dB: Sirens, firearms, fireworks
I don't believe I have seen it personally, but some of the bands I worked with have dealt with it. The last one I remember hearing about was an event center ballroom. Used to be a hotel but had converted to condo I believe. Supposedly the SPL meter was connected to the stage circuit breaker and the limit was in mid 90dB range.
AFAIK SPL meters usually key of the effective SPL rather than peak SPL. Crest factor is the ratio between the peak and effective SPL. The crest factor of a performance depends on how compressed the band's sound is. For example if a band is producing 100dB continous with a 12dB crest factor, it means the peak SPL is 112dB. So if the meter is set to 96dB effective, it's a lot less of a problem than if the meter is set to 96dB peak.
Another parameter you should consider is which frequency weighting scale the meter uses.
Ref: Frequency-Weightings for Sound Level Measurements - NTi Audio Solutions for Audio & Acoustics
AFAIK, if A-weighting is used, the meter is not sensitive to lower frequencies. With C and Z weighting the meter becomes more and more sensitive to low frequencies.
AFAIK SPL meters usually key of the effective SPL rather than peak SPL. Crest factor is the ratio between the peak and effective SPL. The crest factor of a performance depends on how compressed the band's sound is. For example if a band is producing 100dB continous with a 12dB crest factor, it means the peak SPL is 112dB. So if the meter is set to 96dB effective, it's a lot less of a problem than if the meter is set to 96dB peak.
Another parameter you should consider is which frequency weighting scale the meter uses.
Ref: Frequency-Weightings for Sound Level Measurements - NTi Audio Solutions for Audio & Acoustics
AFAIK, if A-weighting is used, the meter is not sensitive to lower frequencies. With C and Z weighting the meter becomes more and more sensitive to low frequencies.
I still have my radio shack db meter from 35 years ago. Used it a month ago at a church I was asked to mix at. Tried to keep it under 90.
When I’m running sound for weddings and corporate events, I always check levels with a phone app (yes, I know it’s not calibrated). On a typical stage, I aim for about 96–98 dB at the back of the dance floor—roughly 20 feet from the stage. Since I’m usually mixing from an iPad another 10–20 feet back or off to a sidewall, it’s important to step out onto the dance floor occasionally to hear what the audience is actually experiencing. In larger rooms or outdoor settings, I’ll push it a bit more depending on the crowd and energy.
At one smaller social club we play (capacity around 70), there’s a decibel meter with strict instructions from management not to exceed 100 dB. If you do, the manager will literally come onstage mid-song and tell you to turn down. Honestly, it sounds great in that room at 95–98 dB—any lower and the mix feels thin, while anything over 100 dB gets uncomfortable pretty quickly. If the room is packed, they’ll sometimes let it slide a bit.
Another club we play regularly could really use a decibel meter. It’s a low-ceiling nightclub with the mixing position tucked into a corner, and the volume drops off noticeably where the engineer is standing. Some engineers are better than others about walking the room and checking levels with a phone app. Without that, it can get pretty punishing on the dance floor right in front of the stage.
At one smaller social club we play (capacity around 70), there’s a decibel meter with strict instructions from management not to exceed 100 dB. If you do, the manager will literally come onstage mid-song and tell you to turn down. Honestly, it sounds great in that room at 95–98 dB—any lower and the mix feels thin, while anything over 100 dB gets uncomfortable pretty quickly. If the room is packed, they’ll sometimes let it slide a bit.
Another club we play regularly could really use a decibel meter. It’s a low-ceiling nightclub with the mixing position tucked into a corner, and the volume drops off noticeably where the engineer is standing. Some engineers are better than others about walking the room and checking levels with a phone app. Without that, it can get pretty punishing on the dance floor right in front of the stage.
I play regularly in a big pub downtown, level -1 of an old resident building. They often get noise complaints, and more than one communal service ticket.
So, they hired private company that does noise level measuring, and for every sound check there is an inspector with some device. When he is happy, he makes photos of mixer settings, signs some papers, and leaves a copy to pub manager. I guess that papers say whose responsibility is it if they get another ticket.
Anyway, we play amp-less and with IEM, so it's easy to accommodate. Sometime during the later part of the gig, he nods to me and I slightly raise master volume. I guess everyone likes loud(ish) music.
So, they hired private company that does noise level measuring, and for every sound check there is an inspector with some device. When he is happy, he makes photos of mixer settings, signs some papers, and leaves a copy to pub manager. I guess that papers say whose responsibility is it if they get another ticket.
Anyway, we play amp-less and with IEM, so it's easy to accommodate. Sometime during the later part of the gig, he nods to me and I slightly raise master volume. I guess everyone likes loud(ish) music.
Soap Box time 
:
Perhaps we should explore the importance of playing at an SPL level that actually suits the needs of patrons and their customers.
In the 90s, I built a system that resulted in essentially a silent stage. We used E-drums and ran ampless with IEMs. After implementing the system, we could deliver a concert at a really low SPL. As a result, we started getting significantly more performance requests.
IME, it is common for pro musicians to say something like, "Live music has to be loud and the audience simply has to accept and deal with it." IMHO this may serve some musician's performance ideals, but it does not always serve the audience's needs.
IMHO most musicians are more like service providers than artists. In order to better meet their customer's needs, they should figure out how to keep the SPL reasonably low. If the audience wants it loud, then by all means crank it up. But IME, many audiences prefer performances with fairly modest volume levels.
There are definitely ways to deliver live music at a fairly low volume. Does it sound exactly the same as playing loud, no. For example, beating the crap out of drums produces a certain sound that you don't get from striking the drums lightly. However while this may be important to a drummer, it won't necessarily be important to the audience, or possibly other musicians who don't appreciate working with a basher.
On a more basic level, let's keep in mind that the sensitivity contour of our ears changes as the volume goes up. So even the way recorded music sounds varies somewhat as the volume increases. A related factor is loud sound tends to excite the bodies fight or flight response, which IMHO can be addictive. In other words, playing loud may give you sort of a high, that you don't get at low volume.
I remember how it felt when I was in my early teens to crank up a stereo. It was exhilarating. I also noticed that my ears rang afterwards, which is something I did not particularly like. As I aged, exposure to loud become progressively less pleasant, and eventually it started to become downright unpleasant
.
Throughout my career as a pro musician, I used ER15s and ER20s for the vast majority of performances. My hearing is probably a bit above average for someone my age, but my ears ring across a spectrum of frequencies and exposure to even modest SPL tends to make the ringing worse.
: Perhaps we should explore the importance of playing at an SPL level that actually suits the needs of patrons and their customers.
In the 90s, I built a system that resulted in essentially a silent stage. We used E-drums and ran ampless with IEMs. After implementing the system, we could deliver a concert at a really low SPL. As a result, we started getting significantly more performance requests.
IME, it is common for pro musicians to say something like, "Live music has to be loud and the audience simply has to accept and deal with it." IMHO this may serve some musician's performance ideals, but it does not always serve the audience's needs.
IMHO most musicians are more like service providers than artists. In order to better meet their customer's needs, they should figure out how to keep the SPL reasonably low. If the audience wants it loud, then by all means crank it up. But IME, many audiences prefer performances with fairly modest volume levels.
There are definitely ways to deliver live music at a fairly low volume. Does it sound exactly the same as playing loud, no. For example, beating the crap out of drums produces a certain sound that you don't get from striking the drums lightly. However while this may be important to a drummer, it won't necessarily be important to the audience, or possibly other musicians who don't appreciate working with a basher.
On a more basic level, let's keep in mind that the sensitivity contour of our ears changes as the volume goes up. So even the way recorded music sounds varies somewhat as the volume increases. A related factor is loud sound tends to excite the bodies fight or flight response, which IMHO can be addictive. In other words, playing loud may give you sort of a high, that you don't get at low volume.
I remember how it felt when I was in my early teens to crank up a stereo. It was exhilarating. I also noticed that my ears rang afterwards, which is something I did not particularly like. As I aged, exposure to loud become progressively less pleasant, and eventually it started to become downright unpleasant
. Throughout my career as a pro musician, I used ER15s and ER20s for the vast majority of performances. My hearing is probably a bit above average for someone my age, but my ears ring across a spectrum of frequencies and exposure to even modest SPL tends to make the ringing worse.
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I’ve never seen a dB meter at a club but I used to rehearse in a studio in midtown Manhattan that had dB meters up on the wall in each room.
I never saw any rules posted; I think they put the meters up as a “public service.” …a gentle reminder to their patrons that they should consider the possibility that they could be doing serious damage to their hearing.
I never saw any rules posted; I think they put the meters up as a “public service.” …a gentle reminder to their patrons that they should consider the possibility that they could be doing serious damage to their hearing.
FullumMusic
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- Oct 13, 2022
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See it a lot in and around NYC. Mixed use zoning necessitates it.
The days of having a standalone music venue or warehouse district club with no neighbors is long gone. And it's a little different from "don't move near an existing bar if you don't want to hear people doing bar stuff." People doing bar stuff is one thing. Still being able to hear a band or DJ in the corner bar half a block away that you can hear on the 6th floor at 2:30AM is another.
The days of having a standalone music venue or warehouse district club with no neighbors is long gone. And it's a little different from "don't move near an existing bar if you don't want to hear people doing bar stuff." People doing bar stuff is one thing. Still being able to hear a band or DJ in the corner bar half a block away that you can hear on the 6th floor at 2:30AM is another.
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I didn't know about this, but it's a great idea. I'm going to start measuring the SPL on stage when there's no meter.
One consideration is that a lot of the cheaper dB meters (like the ones with big displays to mount on the wall) really suck for accuracy - some bad ones can read 10dB+ off the real measurement.
I could see this backfiring on the club - if they knew it was too loud why didn’t they do something about it argument.
I have never seen this in a club, but I have seen it before in a couple of restaurants where people,naturally, are eating and talking. The owners generally check our volume the first song or two, but rarely after that.
When I run sound for a band of guys I know I usually use the db meter on my watch and try to keep things around just below 90db. Loud enough for fun but not stupid loud. Mostly I just watch patron and watch how they’re talking to each other. That’s usually what tells me if we’re too loud. Someone will always complain that we’re too loud but it’s just to be expected. Too loud for them, not loud enough for someone else.
In my younger days I played at a club with a restaurant attached and they wanted us at no higher than 95 db during dinner. The crowd in the bar was louder than 95db and subdued band usually meant that they weren't sticking around for very long. I was working on the stage one afternoon and saw the meter sitting on the bar. A little tweek on the calibration adjustment and we had a great week and packed crowds every night. Later on, I acquired Audio Control SA3502a RTA which also had a big and bright red SPL reading that could be set to display in real time. As above, nobody questioned calibration and it could be "fudged" to display more appealing numbers. I was never trying to deafen anyone, just keep the crowd interested and usually draw in few people from the restaurant who occasionally were heard to say that they didn't even know that had a band in the bar.
