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dB meters at clubs?

#41
rocu said:
Can anyone recommend a reasonably accurate db meter with a large display in the sub $200 range?
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You can probably use your phone and cast the screen to one of the TVs by the bartender that's tuned to Pickleball or Bowling Championships or C-SPAN. Remember to disable notifications in case your other girlfriend or mom texts you ,or NOT.

Do you own a venue or live in a cul-de-sac with sensitive neighbors?

Those 2 UK guys that do the Pedal Show -- don't they exceed 90 dB many times. and they do not even have a drummer. They have a dB meter in the background. Many of us also probably have an aunt that can trip a dB meter.
 
#42
Not in person but I've heard of them. Seems like that's what the soundguy is for. I was once in a decent sized place where the band was so loud you could talk to someone right next to you in the opposite side of the the room.
I was also at a pro concert of a band I really like. They were so loud I couldn't recognize the songs at first, and I know everything they've done.
 
#44
I've seen things go from one extreme to another. When I first started gigging out, it was an everynight thing for some drunk to come up to the stage and holler (mid-song) turn this or that up, and be legitimately right, because you couldn't hear them.

Over time, it's gotten ridiculous how loud we are. I wear flippin' earplugs... at least one. And I'm onstage, in the back, playing bass. Routinely the bar staff will ask us to turn down a little. The fans don't seem to care... I guess they just like the party or don't know the difference. Maybe they're already deaf?
 
#45
Yeah, back in the 90's we had a bar owner in Memphis who stood in front of the stage w/ a DB meter during our soundcheck, continually shaking his head side to side indicating everything was too loud. If he paid that kind of attention to his food & drink service he might still be in business.

Today we pride ourselves on playing at a level where patrons & employees alike can converse without issue. Typically those are restaurant or cafe gigs. But on larger stages we still like let loose.
 
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#46
Saw them in the 90s in the UK but they weren't a problem for us - we were playing barn dance folk music, not punk!

However, in one venue the A-hole caretaker manually triggered the cutoff during our sound check. We weren't even going to be playing that loud but that evening we kept the amber light pegged as much as possible! The customer didn't care but hopefully it irritated the idiot. I can't stand people who pull stunts to show they're the big fish in their insignificant little pond.

Edit: Yes, I know it was a childish response but there is a certain satisfaction to be obtained via malicious compliance.
 
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#48
matthewbrown said:
I was recently in a steak house that could have used one. There was a jazz trio with no drums and pretty much everyone in the room was talking. Even so, you had to shout to converse. The room badly needed some baffling, too.
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So many restaurants in modern strip malls have no acoustic treatment and everyone is yelling over everyone else.
 
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#49
Had a monthly gig at a burger/beer joint. Large, covered, outdoor area with 2 bars. The bar in our line-of-sight had a repurposed traffic light hanging above it. Green/good, Yellow/ be careful, Red/one warning until shutdown. Bartenders had an override if they got too many complaints from patrons.

We hit yellow a few times. But the place was lenient as it was bikers, tourists, locals, followers. We played on bike nights or car nights, so it would get noisy anyway.
 
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#51
Not 100% on topic...I did sound for a tent show pre covid. Client was a local brewery. Tent was about 120 feet by 40 or 50, blocking the street outside to the east of the brewery. Adjoing wall to the west of the brewery is a local cinema. 5 acts, 12 to 10 pm.

Headliner was The Supersuckers. Their backline request was a JCM800 and 4x10 and an SVT. First thing the bass player/lead singer did was ro duct tape an MCR DI Preamp to the SVT and insist I use it. Gibson LP bass. The most god awful tone ever. Assault with deadly mid range...

These idiots were mso freaking loud that the brewery had to refund the movie goers tickets... GM cme up and complained about the volume. I had him look at the caredully labeled board. All sliders down except for the lead vocal mic and a smidge of kick... I still got the look of can't you do something? I got paid but lost the client...

Client had the band back to play inside the brewery. They cleared rhe place... Met the GM on the street a month later after the inside job. He apologized... 'Now I get it...' Client stopped doing the tent show event, stopped hiring cowboy punk bands and migrated to acoustic.

Full circle... Even with just vocals and a bit of kick, 114 at the back of the tent, well over 80' away. Hearing protection at the board and light console. That was using Super Six Digital off my iPhone. I forget which rating... It was hardly germin as too freaking loud is still too freaking loud.

One lovely tune I recall was "I'm going to hang myself and masturbate till I die" - this was just after a notable actor did himself in, in Thailand... Oh the fun we can have in live sound...
 
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#52
Our last gig was at a venue in dispute with neighbours over permissible sound levels and were quite firm on not exceeding 100 dB on their meter. However, they measured once in the beginning, gave us the thumbs up and did not bother any further. I had rigged my phone to measure locally and we stayed between 90 and 110 all night, but it was an effort. Drummer played with pads and tea towels on her drums, only the guitarist didn't really try to turn down. "Something something sound something something."

I could not agree more with wasnex - playing in a lower volume bracket is much easier to mix, to enjoy, to play (with the possible exception of the acoustic drumkit everyone has a volume knob, after all).
 
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#53
It seems like a lot of the replies are treating installed meters as if they’re primarily for the band and to keep things comfortable or safe for patrons...and I suppose where a band is running sound from the stage or otherwise controlling the room levels at a place where management has laid down the law, that's the case...but there are differing cases and varying purposes. And the anecdotes also seem to highlight the purpose of the meter determining where the measurement is being taken, how accurate it needs to be (vs simply being known and consistent) and other aspects.

In the bar I mentioned, they have house sound, and while the meter is visible from the stage, it's not for the band, it’s there for the sound engineer (their employee). Because this place is on a city's beach boardwalk, the purpose of the meter goes to ordinance compliance. And that compliance is to how much sound escapes the venue at certain times, not any specific reading at the meter position itself. The meter is where it’s both in the direct line of fire of the PA at a known distance and easily visible to the sound engineer. Accuracy or scale relative to the stage isn’t the point...it's having a consistent reference that's been learned (e.g., any reading above X dB will be out of bounds outside).

Another example for me is a venue that runs a parking lot "pop-up concert series" in the spring and early fall. Again, the purpose is compliance. The sound engineer actually walks the perimeter at the part where the property line is near houses taking readings. I remember the sound guy complaining one time that the limit (I recall something mid-80s dB along that line) was unrealistic and unnecessarily low, but that’s what the police use to field potential complaints with, so that was mattered.

If the purpose is managing levels to accommodate people wanting to talk, that’s a different story, and I don't think a meter itself, while it can be a real-time tool, can be overriding. “Too loud” is whatever people perceive as too loud in the moment...and people can be very different from one another. If someone is going to complain, they’re not going to check whether the meter is over 92 or 95 dB before doing that or feel satisfied being told the meter says it's not too loud. Sure, you can learn typical ranges and use a meter, wherever it might be placed, as a corresponding rough guide, but that's not going to dictate, settle or prevent complaints.
 
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#54
I just use the watch db meter to get a reasonable volume range that I know works. It's not a scientific study, so it doesn't need to be 100% accurate. Mostly, just watch the patrons and how they're talking to each other. That will tell you if you're too loud. But there will always be someone that complains that you're too loud. Just talk to the manager, let him/her know that you are monitoring SPL and let us know if it's okay. They're the one that is signing the check.
 
#55
Felix31 said:
On the other hand, there's a restaurant a mile from my house and when they have a band on the patio I can hear it clear as day. This should not be allowed.

If you want to live all jammed up against each other in a city because of the things a city offers, you also have to accept some restrictions on your behavior.
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As I mentioned in my next post, I aspire to be asked to turn up. I hate playing very loud, it turns my hearing to mush.

BBB
 
#56
DWA2469 said:
Has anyone encountered this? I have seen it at a few clubs we play recently! They have installed a digital dB meter with a sign that read DO NOT EXCEED 104 dB, for an example. I have seen the signs say 99 dB up to 105 dB!
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Gads, I first encountered this back in the early 70. Our sound company we hire manages our sound level at all venues.

Now back in my dumb and dumber days, I had a RICK 4001 running an ROS rig consisting of a Hiwatt. Custom 100 with a 412 cab and a SVT powering amped V-4B 215 reflex cab with two guitarists with 100 watt Marshall amps with 412 cabs and a keyboardist with his Hammond B-3 and a Leslie 950. All of us were usually cranked, even rooms smaller than some bathrooms I’ve been in, with the same acoustics…lol…

And we wondered why gigs were scarce, Lol
 
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#57
Wasnex said:
I don't believe I have seen it personally, but some of the bands I worked with have dealt with it. The last one I remember hearing about was an event center ballroom. Used to be a hotel but had converted to condo I believe. Supposedly the SPL meter was connected to the stage circuit breaker and the limit was in mid 90dB range.

AFAIK SPL meters usually key of the effective SPL rather than peak SPL. Crest factor is the ratio between the peak and effective SPL. The crest factor of a performance depends on how compressed the band's sound is. For example if a band is producing 100dB continous with a 12dB crest factor, it means the peak SPL is 112dB. So if the meter is set to 96dB effective, it's a lot less of a problem than if the meter is set to 96dB peak.

Another parameter you should consider is which frequency weighting scale the meter uses.
View attachment 7465835
View attachment 7465863
Ref: Frequency-Weightings for Sound Level Measurements - NTi Audio Solutions for Audio & Acoustics

AFAIK, if A-weighting is used, the meter is not sensitive to lower frequencies. With C and Z weighting the meter becomes more and more sensitive to low frequencies.
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Oh, how I wish DJs playing stupid raves after the 'too loud' band would be measured with Z weighting........
 
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#60
I have never run into a meter, but there was one place where we knew we had gone too far when glasses started falling off the shelves behind the bar. :roflmao:

I wish there had been more of a trend toward turning down decades ago, when I still had hearing.
I dealt with too many guitarists that felt like they had to turn up to at least 10 to get the sound they needed and they were playing 100 watt Marshalls or
Fender Twin Reverbs!
 
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