Deadbeat Studios: Active vs. Passive Basses

[Dr. Cheese]

If you’re passive she thinks you don’t care.
If you’re active she feels you’re coming on too strong.
Wait!
What’s this thread about again?

 

[Jeff Scott]

It's interesting how they [the enginner/producer] attributed the problem to my playing, rather than the engineer's inability to mix anything but a Fender.

This is so key and the most important part of this discussion, to me. I am with the the others who have commented on this issue. It's a shame that there are so many close-minded engineers out there; they are supposed to be making us (the one who created the music in the first place) sound how we want/need to sound for our music, but instead, we are being told how we "should" sound, and what instruments we "should" be playing (to make them happy - lazy bums).

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Generally speaking, good outboard studio gear are much higher quality with lower noise than most of the bass on-board preamps. Active basses can help you shape your sound on the fly, but I use a high pass filter, eq, and a compressor anyway. I adjust my settings, and don't change them during the set, and sound persons like that. Plus, I don't like batteries in my basses as I like to leave them plugged in, and I have over 20 of them. But I get why some like them.

 

[socialleper]

Yawn. Battery dying mid song strawman. Never happened to me in nearly 40y because I'm prepared.

Choose passive in the studio because you're mic-ing? What if my preferred bass has EMGs? Or is an Alembic?

Clearly, and his arguments are shaped heavily that way.

If you hadn't posted I probably wouldn't have watched it, even though it was in my YT feed because I find him irritating a good percentage of the time. I wish I had his chops though.

Never had a battery die in the middle of a set either. Just change it once a year. Done.

 

[socialleper]

I have a few completely passive basses, but I don't use them often. Mostly just for screwing around or playing along with songs at home. I can't really use them live because they don't cut the way I need to. I have some passive basses with active EQs that sound good, but they still aren't my go to. All active as been my go to for most of my life. They just cut through in a way, and handle my playing style better, that I can't get out of a passive bass.

 

[JazznFunk]

Generally speaking, good outboard studio gear are much higher quality with lower noise than most of the bass on-board preamps. Active basses can help you shape your sound on the fly, but I use a high pass filter, eq, and a compressor anyway. I adjust my settings, and don't change them during the set, and sound persons like that. Plus, I don't like batteries in my basses as I like to leave them plugged in, and I have over 20 of them. But I get why some like them.

Sadowsky, Mike Pope, Bartolini, etc might disagree with that assertion. I've never had an onboard preamp be 'noisy' in any way that was a detriment to the music - live or in studio. Passive basses though... particularly true single-coil J-Basses... tons of noise if you stand in the wrong direction with the tone control up too much. So I'd say it's situational, and user-dependent. Live, I don't usually change the EQ too much either, except to compensate for changes when using different pickup panning, etc. i.e. if I go to the bridge pickup and get more 'pointed' in terms of tone, you lose a little low end... so I boost the bass a hair to restore it. No major swings tho.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Sadowsky, Mike Pope, Bartolini, etc might disagree with that assertion.

I won't argue, but I'm an audio engineer and that has almost always been the case. You play what makes you happy

 

[Bass Viking]

I appreciate an active Bass when I use the Pure switch on my GR Bass amp, which deactivates the EQ section of the amp and reduces noise. I can make tonal changes on the bass.

 

[JazznFunk]

I won't argue, but I'm an audio engineer and that has almost always been the case. You play what makes you happy

I'm an audio engineer as well and I will argue it. It's not an either/or discussion. Quality onboard preamps like the ones mentioned (and plenty of others I didn't mention) should not introduce more noise into a bass signal than what exists in a passive bass's signal. If it's a cheap, lower quality preamp, then sure.... I might buy that argument. The ones I mentioned aren't, and given that active preamps in basses have been used for decades (perhaps in conjunction with other studio preamp gear as well), it's kind of hard to latch on to that statement as an absolute. ANY preamp set at extreme levels could certainly cause issues... just like opening the tone pot on a passive bass can introduce more 'noise' and artifacts into a signal than might otherwise be present. There's also loading on passive, un-buffered pickups to consider which can degrade the sound, shielding, etc. So again - it's situational, and multi-faceted. Far more complex than saying 'studio preamps are always better than onboard preamps'.

I'll share this anecdote since it seems apropos: Years ago I owned several USA-made MusicMan SUB Basses - the original ones made right alongside the regular StingRays in SLO. I had 2 2-band active ones (fretted and fretless) and a PASSIVE fretless which still had bass/treble controls. The circuit was magic (and apparently quite unique according to EBMM)... beautiful.... and the passive bass's tone sounded just as good (and almost identical) to the active 2-band. There was never any concern about noise from the preamp on the active ones live or in studio. The only real discernible difference was that the passive one sounded overall a little 'darker', which is understandable.

 

[mongo2]

I'm a retired electronic engineer and still a weekend warrior with quite a bit of experience with designing/building and running FOH systems and recording ("sound guy" type stuff) as well as instrument construction, repair and modification.

For my basses I went from completely passive to EMG active pickups with their full compliment of active preamp/tone control options to Bartolini passive pickups with their three band a EQ preamp but wound up going full circle back to completely passive sometimes bypassing the volume and tone controls by wiring the pickup straight to the jack. My more recent DIY builds are also passive and wired straight to the jack with no onboard controls.

I eventually mounted the Bart preamp in a project box so I could use it with any bass but I haven't done so. My EMG stuff is in a plastic bag in a box inside of another box somewhere in my basement.

 

[Luckydog]

This is so key and the most important part of this discussion, to me. I am with the the others who have commented on this issue. It's a shame that there are so many close-minded engineers out there; they are supposed to be making us (the one who created the music in the first place) sound how we want/need to sound for our music, but instead, we are being told how we "should" sound, and what instruments we "should" be playing (to make them happy - lazy bums).

I suppose thats true if its truly your band, your music. But if you are hired, someone else in the food chain may have a perfect right to demand a certain approach/tone/result dont they?

 

[JazznFunk]

I suppose thats true if its truly your band, your music. But if you are hired, someone else in the food chain may have a perfect right to demand a certain approach/tone/result dont they?

It can work in both directions. Sometimes what someone 'demands' isn't actually the best sound for the context. As a bassist (or guitarist or whatever the instrument may be) our PROFESSIONAL experience should guide everyone toward the best result for the music. So, if person X demands a P-Bass 'just because' - but my experience tells me that either a Jazz Bass or a StingRay, or a Lakland, or whatever - would work well IN THAT CONTEXT, then I make it a point to set up a discussion to create options. Present a solution for the 'problem' even if the 'problem' only exists in Person X's mind. Record/play the parts with the bass that Person X 'demands', and then do the same with the other basses. Sometimes, when all options are on the table, then it can become more clear what the 'better' solution might be. I find this especially works when people are 'listening with their eyes' and making choices that way, versus really listening to tone in context.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I suppose thats true if its truly your band, your music. But if you are hired, someone else in the food chain may have a perfect right to demand a certain approach/tone/result dont they?

Of course, if you are just a hire gun that makes sense. I've never been in that position; any recording projects was a band I was in or started, and we were the producers.

 

[Luckydog]

It can work in both directions. Sometimes what someone 'demands' isn't actually the best sound for the context. As a bassist (or guitarist or whatever the instrument may be) our PROFESSIONAL experience should guide everyone toward the best result for the music. So, if person X demands a P-Bass 'just because' - but my experience tells me that either a Jazz Bass or a StingRay, or a Lakland, or whatever - would work well IN THAT CONTEXT, then I make it a point to set up a discussion to create options. Present a solution for the 'problem' even if the 'problem' only exists in Person X's mind. Record/play the parts with the bass that Person X 'demands', and then do the same with the other basses. Sometimes, when all options are on the table, then it can become more clear what the 'better' solution might be. I find this especially works when people are 'listening with their eyes' and making choices that way, versus really listening to tone in context.

I agree that you can (and should) pose suggestions, to include comparisons (if possible), based upon your experience as a musician, even when you are an “employee”. That would help inform the boss’s decision.

 

[5StringBlues]

l have an opinion.

 

[eastcoasteddie]

Yawn. Battery dying mid song strawman.

I’ve had the same battery in my active-only bass for 6 years, still works.

 

[JimmyM]

I’ve had the same battery in my active-only bass for 6 years, still works.

Respect to your battery, but at this point, I’d probably let it roam free in green pastures before it leaks.

 

[JazznFunk]

Respect to your battery, but at this point, I’d probably let it roam free in green pastures before it leaks.

This. I had a battery sitting in a case for years that I forgot about that decided to yeet out one side of the terminals out of the bottom cap. Didn't discover it till I opened the case up. It didn't leak or 'explode' per-se, but it definitely ejected some contents. At least it wasn't in a bass!