Double Bass Dealing with EUB's and strings that are "too long"

[davel66]

Folks, This is covered in a few different threads in this forum but I do have a specific question I couldn't find an answer to. Hopefully this isn't too redundant a thread. Mods feel free to move/merge as appropriate.

I just restrung an Azola original BugBass with Thomastik Spirocores - Medium gauge, 3/4 size. I'm very happy with the sound and feel!

The 3/4 size strings were too long and I had to have several wraps of the metal part of the string around the tuning pegs.

For all the strings I only trimmed the thin red part of the string to get the wrapping to not be excessive when tuned to pitch. In the case of the E string I ended up having a significant amount of the metal wound around the tuning peg and the string is getting pushed against the peg box (too many wraps). This doesn't seem like a big problem yet but I'm worried that as the sting continues to stretch the amount of slack taken in will cause too much string to be pressing against the peg box.

So finally my question: I think I need to trim the string past the red part and actually cut the "real" part of the string, the flat-wound metal part. Is that going to cause me problems and should I avoid this in favor of string against the peg box?

If it's helpful I can upload a picture.

 

[VictorW126]

Yes, the strings should be cut.

On my bass BSX (by design, it looks like a BugBass) I shortened the string (cut the tail) for a 150-300mm, that the string is well wound on the axis of the tuner. This length depends on the brand of strings and strings of numbers, because the strings are wound on A,D tuner more distant than the E,G.
Specific length you need to find an experimental for each string. You need to leave a tail length of 150-200mm after tuner for a good winding.

Here is a picture illustrating:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f101/bsx-megathread-390289/index11.html#post10011654
Later in this topic in detail told about the length of the strings. Dimensions bass BSH similar to the size of the Bug bass.

Hope this helps.

 

[Francois Blais]

Please don't cut in the metal part or you'll ruin your string(s)!
As long as the turns don't push too hard on the pegbox, which could pinch the string and damage it.
I have the same problem with my Carruthers.
Half-size DB strings fit best, but there's not much choice for that lenght.
Furthermore, they may be designed thicker for the shorter scale and give too much tension at 3/4 scale.
(for some brands, the 1/2 size is the same string as the 3/4, just cut shorter on the winding machine)

You can save a few centimeters if you install the strings a different way:
Instead of passing through the tailpiece holes from the bottom, pass the strings from the top, and bring them upside over the top of the tailpiece.
This will make a kind of reverse "J".
Hope you understand what I mean.

It'll also reduce the angle of the strings over the bridge, but I don't think this would be an issue.

 

[VictorW126]

Please don't cut in the metal part or you'll ruin your string(s)!

I do not recommend cut the string. This can damage the string. This complicates the use of strings used on other basses.
An my acoustic DB and Triumph EUB (where mechanics is the same as an acoustic DB) I have not cut the string.

But the bass with small mechanics long tails of strings (many turns) bad for the setting string! If not selected a short strings (eg. 1/2 DB strings), then the strings should be cut.
(Long 3/4 strings are not provided on the size of EUB. It is normal that they should be cut.)

IMHO.

!! I must say that I'm using BSX-EUB. I have no experience in using the BugBass. !! I think these tips can be used with the Bugbass.

 

[davel66]

Thanks much for the comments folks. I am going to err on the side of caution and will not cut the metal part of the string. Right now I can still wiggle the string that is pressing against the peg box so I think I'm OK for a bit.

Francois - I like your suggestion of changing the string routing at the tailpiece - very clever! I'll take a look and I'm sure I can figure it out.

 

[Francois Blais]

Some strings have a removeable ball (Jargars come to mind), and some have a hole in it.
(like Obligatos and Evahs)
You can mount those in loop fashion and therefore save at least an inch.

 

[tstone]

>> You can save a few centimeters if you install the strings a different way:
Instead of passing through the tailpiece holes from the bottom, pass the strings from the top, and bring them upside over the top of the tailpiece.
This will make a kind of reverse "J".
Hope you understand what I mean.​

Actually, I am having a hard time understanding. If you pass the string so that the ball end is sitting on top of the tailpiece, how do you route the peg end of the string "upside over the top of the tailpiece"??

 

[Francois Blais]

>> You can save a few centimeters if you install the strings a different way:
Instead of passing through the tailpiece holes from the bottom, pass the strings from the top, and bring them upside over the top of the tailpiece.
This will make a kind of reverse "J".
Hope you understand what I mean.​

Actually, I am having a hard time understanding. If you pass the string so that the ball end is sitting on top of the tailpiece, how do you route the peg end of the string "upside over the top of the tailpiece"??

Sorry for my bad english.
Maybe someone will jump in and explain it with better words.
My main language is french.

Edit: I tried to make a very simple drawing so you get the idea.
Hope it worked.

 

[NickyBass]

You mean like on this bass?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f144/1948-american-standard-754702/

 

[Francois Blais]

You mean like on this bass?

In reference to post #6, yes.

 

[tstone]

>> I tried to make a very simple drawing so you get the idea.
Hope it worked.​

Ah, yes, I understand now.

If your strings have ball ends with a through-hole and you wanted to maintain the same break angle over the bridge, I suppose you could rout them like this:

 

[davel66]

Sorry for my bad english.
Maybe someone will jump in and explain it with better words.
My main language is french.

Edit: I tried to make a very simple drawing so you get the idea.
Hope it worked.

Ah, this is how my Azola was strung when it came to me and I restrung it the same way. I think the bass was made to be strung this way as the holes where the balls of the strings hit the tail piece are countersunk. There is no such countersink on the holes on the outside of the tailpiece.

 

[DenoVeri]

I'm building a 5-string EUB as my first lutherie experience.
While ordering strings, I got a LaBella smooth 4-string set, and ordered the low-B separately (actually a low-C). The low-B string came home too long for by EUB, so I shortened it as follows:

I established the length I needed, slipped on some heat-shrinkeable tubing to be used at the end to prevent the chrome layer unravelling, put some masking tape below the cut-off point in case it would start unravelling, and cut the string.

Then, I unravelled the top layer as far as I needed to and moved the tubing over this and heated it to 'seal' the chrome layer. Then I unravelled the next copper layer above the tubing enough to give me the core to use for winding on the tuning post. I secured this copper layer by spreading out the end coils a little and soldering them to the core for a short length - quarter of an inch?

I now hope that this stands the test of time . . . will let you know if a problem develops.

Cheers!

 

[coldsalmon]

(for some brands, the 1/2 size is the same string as the 3/4, just cut shorter on the winding machine)

Does anyone know which brands are like this, or how to find out? I have an Ergo which has a full 42" scale but is too short to actually fit 3/4 strings. So I would love to have a 3/4 string cut down to a 1/2 length.

Alternatively, let me know if you have experience with any strings that can handle being wrapped around small-diameter bass guitar tuners without breaking. I popped an E string many years ago on the Ergo tuning pegs, and I don't want to repeat the experience.

Most recently, I foolishly bought 1/2 size Corellis 350s but I have learned that they are not made for this scale (and they sound like it). I used Spiro Mittels before, which could handle the tuners and tying knots in the ball end to shorten the strings, but I want something with lighter tension and a darker sound than spiros.

I have an old set of Obligatos that would be perfect, but I just don't think I can fit them without breaking the strings. In guess my options are either 1/2 size strings which are just shortened 3/4 strings, or tough 3/4 strings that don't mind tight tuning pegs on the steel wrapping.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Only use steel core strings for small diameter bass guitar tuners.
You can cut them as long as there are still some cm of silk wrapped at the end. Secure the silk with some glue.
You can also let the string ends stick out of the hole.
Can you replace the small diameter BG tuners with fender-style tuners? I have EP Weich on my Clevinger EUB with these style of tuners for several years now.

 

[Francois Blais]

Maybe you can screw a small bracket with four holes on the back of the Ergo, a few inches higher than the strings holes, so the stop of the strings would be there?
Kind of like this: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ergo-megathread-part-ii.660682/page-28#post-15926841

 

[fretless714]

Only use steel core strings for small diameter bass guitar tuners.
You can cut them as long as there are still some cm of silk wrapped at the end. Secure the silk with some glue.
You can also let the string ends stick out of the hole.
Can you replace the small diameter BG tuners with fender-style tuners? I have EP Weich on my Clevinger EUB with these style of tuners for several years now.

I have a set of D'Addario Zyex 3/4 lights coming in the mail that I plan on putting on my Azola Bug Bass, the bass sports 1/2 inch in diameter Fender-style slotted tuners. does anyone foresee any issues due to the strings having a nylon core? currently there are a set of Corelli 370M 1/2 scale on there and the bass has previously had a set of D'Addario Helicore Hybrids 1/2 scale that came with it as well as a set of Thomastik Spirocore Solos in 3/4 scale, all sets being installed without issue. would I be safe in cutting down the strings at the peghead if need be? if so, any tips or tricks anyone can pass along?

 

[coldsalmon]

Only use steel core strings for small diameter bass guitar tuners.
You can cut them as long as there are still some cm of silk wrapped at the end. Secure the silk with some glue.
You can also let the string ends stick out of the hole.
Can you replace the small diameter BG tuners with fender-style tuners? I have EP Weich on my Clevinger EUB with these style of tuners for several years now.

I thought about replacing the tuners but I know exactly zero about bass guitar tuners, so I don't even know what to look for. But if there are reasonable strings that will work with the smaller tuners, it seems to make more sense to just buy a set of those strings rather than replacing the tuners and also buying a set of strings.

Maybe you can screw a small bracket with four holes on the back of the Ergo, a few inches higher than the strings holes, so the stop of the strings would be there?
Kind of like this: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ergo-megathread-part-ii.660682/page-28#post-15926841

I thought about this but it would be a risk for me. I am in a small Brooklyn apartment - yes I have a drill, but I don't have a real working surface, a vice, or more importantly, any real woodworking experience. There is a good chance I would slip and drill a hole right through the fingerboard or something like that. It does look like it might be the best solution, but it would just be real undertaking for me to do it properly.

I'm hoping there is a set of strings that will work without any mods. Any intelligence on 1/2 size strings that are just shortened 3/4 strings? That would be ideal.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Have a look at my excel sheet in my Dropbox. The tension is unified for the scale put on the right top, if you find 3/4 and 1/2 size strings with the same tension on the (2nd) rightmost column, you have your answer.
Link in signature and string sticky.

 

[coldsalmon]

This is great, thank you! I found the sheet. I see that the Obligatos have almost the same tension - within 0.5kp. Does this basically count as "the same" because the values are calculated for each string separately and there is some variation? Or should it be exactly the same?

I haven't found any strings that are exactly the same in 3/4 and 1/2 so far among the "usual suspects," but there are some that are close.