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Double Bass Dealing with Physical issues

At 65, my wife and I are some of the youngest among our local group of part-time musicians and jamming friends. About 20 years ago we looked around at our older friends and noticed that while they were most all still enjoying playing music and jamming, their chops were getting less and less polished, and not due to any lack of effort or practice. This was due to various, mostly natural, age related issues and not necessarily any particular active disease... In our observation, keeping rhythm seems to be the first thing to go... Not necessarily to a point of stopping music altogether, but enough to keep from performing.

My wife and I decided to accelerate our practice and music work, realizing that we also would too soon be losing our chops, and we wanted to have no regrets about doing too little music. Since then we've played on big and small stages all over the place, we've been active with numerous bands and countless jams, we've performed regularly on an international Satellite TV series and for numerous short spots on other shows, we've recorded, produced and released 4 Gospel albums, and with only a few exceptions, have loved every minute of it. This along with the real big lifetime accomplishments of raising our two sons, supporting a home and nurturing two pretty successful careers.

We've had a few major issues on the way... in 2010, like @buckthorn , I contracted GBS which went into CIDP, leaving my lower extremities deeply numb and slowly but continuously weakening and stiffening. During checkups that year, like @210superair , I was also diagnosed with severely degenerative C3-C4-C5 (and more, but not practical to repair) and had a successful fusion of those vertebrae. In 2015 my wife was diagnosed with a bad cardiac mitral valve and had an open heart repair. And over the last few years we've both been experiencing stiffer joints all over the place than we've ever felt before, especially lately as winter comes around. These have been good reminders for both of us, inspiring us to work harder and smarter at everything that we love doing.

Last year I made the decision to retire from my 35 year systems analyst career a little early; actually my wife made it for me, realizing I was getting more and more frustrated with situations at work, and that I could earn just as much or more money than I was earning at work by collecting monthly checks from SS and from my retirement fund. My wife is still working and enjoying it, but is also planning to retire in the next year or so. The goal for both of us is to be retired early enough to still enjoy it; we have a modest RV and really want to travel the nation during the summer bluegrass festival season sometime in the next few years. And, we'll see, we may have other trips up our sleeves.

Early last year I acquired my Alcoa and dove very seriously into the double bass quagmire -- and I have loved every minute of it. This year, we finished and released our latest Gospel album, plus I'm continuing serious work on double bass and, as possible, honing my banjo and mandolin chops. We're performing often and loving music, but at the same time we're looking over our shoulders as the age-train seems to be accelerating.

Music has been wonderful to my wife and I over the last 50 years; it's how we met and it's always been there for us to enjoy. But early on, we decided not to try to make it in music full time, because the stress took all the fun out of it for us. Of the full time musicians that we know -- and we know and care about a lot of them -- about 15% pay a mortgage instead of rent. About 10% have health insurance. About 5% have a serious retirement fund. And about .01% actually make it big, with many of them living posh, but basically horrible lives from then on.

The best recommendation I can make to anyone who is making, trying or planning to make a living at music, is to plan healthcare and retirement for yourself and your family now while you're healthy and young enough to do so. No matter how much you love music, one day, either due to unexpected health issues or due to age, you'll realize that you aren't able to compete anymore and you'll not be in a position to start another career. This is the natural way of music and it has been part of life for musicians throughout the centuries. It is an extremely hard life, and while you'll probably always love music, it stops making money for you someday. Having a plan to manage that situation can keep you loving music even when you aren't performing anymore.
 
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At 65, my wife and I are some of the youngest among our local group of part-time musicians and jamming friends. About 20 years ago we looked around at our older friends and noticed that while they were most all still enjoying playing music and jamming, their chops were getting less and less polished, and not due to any lack of effort or practice. This was due to various, mostly natural, age related issues and not necessarily any particular active disease... In our observation, keeping rhythm seems to be the first thing to go... Not necessarily to a point of stopping music altogether, but enough to keep from performing.

My wife and I decided to accelerate our practice and music work, realizing that we also would too soon be losing our chops, and we wanted to have no regrets about doing too little music. Since then we've played on big and small stages all over the place, we've been active with numerous bands and countless jams, we've performed regularly on an international Satellite TV series and for numerous short spots on other shows, we've recorded, produced and released 4 Gospel albums, and with only a few exceptions, have loved every minute of it. This along with the real big lifetime accomplishments of raising our two sons, supporting a home and nurturing two pretty successful careers.

We've had a few major issues on the way... in 2010, like @buckthorn , I contracted GBS which went into CIDP, leaving my lower extremities deeply numb and slowly but continuously weakening and stiffening. During checkups that year, like @210superair , I was also diagnosed with severely degenerative C3-C4-C5 (and more, but not practical to repair) and had a successful fusion of those vertebrae. In 2015 my wife was diagnosed with a bad cardiac mitral valve and had an open heart repair. And over the last few years we've both been experiencing stiffer joints all over the place than we've ever felt before, especially lately as winter comes around. These have been good reminders for both of us, inspiring us to work harder and smarter at everything that we love doing.

Last year I made the decision to retire from my 35 year systems analyst career a little early; actually my wife made it for me, realizing I was getting more and more frustrated with situations at work, and that I could earn just as much or more money than I was earning at work by collecting monthly checks from SS and from my retirement fund. My wife is still working and enjoying it, but is also planning to retire in the next year or so. The goal for both of us is to be retired early enough to still enjoy it; we have a modest RV and really want to travel the nation during the summer bluegrass festival season sometime in the next few years. And, we'll see, we may have other trips up our sleeves.

Early last year I acquired my Alcoa and dove very seriously into the double bass quagmire -- and I have loved every minute of it. This year, we finished and released our latest Gospel album, plus I'm continuing serious work on double bass and, as possible, honing my banjo and mandolin chops. We're performing often and loving music, but at the same time we're looking over our shoulders as the age-train seems to be accelerating.

Music has been wonderful to my wife and I over the last 50 years; it's how we met and it's always been there for us to enjoy. But early on, we decided not to try to make it in music full time, because the stress took all the fun out of it for us. Of the full time musicians that we know -- and we know and care about a lot of them -- about 15% pay a mortgage instead of rent. About 10% have health insurance. About 5% have a serious retirement fund. And about .01% actually make it big, with many of them living posh, but basically horrible lives from then on.

The best recommendation I can make to anyone who is making, trying or planning to make a living at music, is to plan healthcare and retirement for yourself and your family now while you're healthy and young enough to do so. No matter how much you love music, one day, either due to unexpected health issues or due to age, you'll realize that you aren't able to compete anymore and you'll not be in a position to start another career. This is the natural way of music and it has been part of life for musicians throughout the centuries. It is an extremely hard life, and while you'll probably always love music, it stops making money for you someday. Having a plan to manage that situation can keep you loving music even when you aren't performing anymore.

Awesome post D.

When you guys hit the road on the rv, welcome to stop in Michigan. I have a barn on a few acres a few miles from my house with an rv pump out. Quite close to great restaurants and lots of lakes. You can drive my spare car while you are here and I'll take you out in the boat and kill some fish... Needless to say we'll do some pickin around a bonfire.

Cheers.
 
Sorry to hear this, Trey. I'm sure you'll figure out a work around and keep playing! Can it be fused at an angle of your choice (if that would be a good thing)?[/QUOTE


My doctor, who looks like she just got out of grade school, a wonderfully sweet and caring soul, is going to fuse the tip joint at a slight angle when I'm playing. I'm pretty sure I'll develop a work around. It might even be better! As for all the other abuse we put ourselves through, anything that can make life easier and keep you healthier, I'm all for.
 
@dhergert, Good for you, that's a great story. How's your CIDP now? Do you have any idea how you got it? For me, it was an "innocent" annual flu shot. Ten days later I was in the ER, unable to walk. My legs are numb from my toes up to my knees, and I have some numbness in my hands and fingertips. I spent almost a month at a rehab hospital, and am now doing outpatient rehab. I'm 61, still working full time as a web developer (working from home during recovery). I'm in a jazz quartet that does regular gigs in a supper club and at various private events.

in 2010, like @buckthorn , I contracted GBS which went into CIDP, leaving my lower extremities deeply numb and slowly but continuously weakening and stiffening.
 
How's your CIDP now? Do you have any idea how you got it?

I've been really lucky, now at 10 years out, the CIDP is pretty stable, the numbness is not getting worse, but it seems not really getting better much if any. Like you I also have numbness in my hands and fingertips, but not enough to be a problem for music or typing. I'm getting a lot of stiffness in my hips and knees either from arthritis or from lack of neural stimulation to those muscle groups, or maybe from both. But, I'm able to drive, I'm able to walk. While I'm more clumsy and with the neck fusion it's hard to watch down where I'm walking, with a cane I can keep up with my wife for miles, and she's really in pretty good shape. Most of the time if the ground is level I can also get around without the cane, albeit more slowly and for shorter distances (less than a mile).

As far as how I got it is concerned, I have a semi-supported theory that the Zika virus has actually been active in North America for decades, but just wasn't recognized by the WHO and the CDC as something separate from flu until it hit epidemic proportions world wide in the early-to-mid 20teens. Which means the upswing in GBS that's also been happening in North America could easily be related to that. GBS is known statistically as being a more common side-effect of Zika than just being a statistical anomaly of GBS by itself. I know for sure I've repeatedly been at a number of camping locations for festivals or just camp outs in north San Diego county where the mosquitoes are known to have carried Zika, and in general mosquitoes love me more than life itself. So my strong suspicion is that for me it's the Zika link. As you know though, no one knows with 100% certainty how or why they got GBS.

Edit: More on topic, I use a Bass Buggy with my Alcoa and for me it's really a DB life-saver. It's light and compact and very stable and with it I can walk with the Alcoa for long distances and at good speed -- really almost using the bass and the Bass Buggy as a cane -- and I have done so at a myriad of venues and festivals, as well as from bow to stern on a number of cruise ships, not to mention at the docs while getting ready to board or while disembarking. Honestly, because of transportation demands, I probably wouldn't be able to play double bass if it wasn't for the Bass Buggy.
 
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I have nothing like the issues that any of the previous posters have. I'm 58 and other than less energy than I had in my 20s, I have no complaints. That said, I've played with many "old timers" and know that there will come a day when I find the DB too challenging to be worthwhile. My "plan" is to start my next phase as a pianist. And when that is no longer worth the effort, I expect I'll spend my time composing.
Music to me has always been a journey and I don't see my physical self interrupting my journey.
 
I'm 78, been playing DB since the mid fifties. I'm a bit bent in the back and I sit down on a stool sometimes. But I still manage a regular seven piece gig once a week with freelance in between. Hands and upper body still strong.
But enough about me. Last week I played with an ex pro vibes player. 92! He was amazing, really smacked those strips and his stuff at the mic had us in stitches with some of his stories. In his day he had three sets of vibes set up in the various London studios, he was that busy. He had toured/played with everybody you could think of. Very humbling.
 
I'm 73 and still in two bands and Roger is one of the reasons I'm playing DB. I met him two years ago at a bass bash in England and promptly returned to Canada and found a DB to replace my EUB and have been loving it ever since and gigging with it regularly. Like everyone, I have few issues(mostly hand/wrist tendons) but I plan to keep playing as long as I can.Lots of exercise(skiing already this year!) and careful eating have helped keep me in shape.
Thanks Roger.
Up and Away/Staggering On/Bob
 
Hang in there everybody. Just member Milt and Percy and Ben Tucker and Peter Ind and all them cats who were
hitting it right up until they shuffled off.

@Chris Fitzgerald - check out tai chi. Short form and long form build muscle and balance, which = stability and flexibility as you age. They also build bone density; after 20 years Kate had the muscle and bone density of a 25 year old when she was 64. It's definitely easier on the joints. After a couple of years practice, you can likely start doing fast form, which adds a good cardio element. You don't have to get into push hands or fighting if you don't want to, Kate enjoyed those, though...
 
@Ed Fuqua funny enough, that might actually happen. My Kate and I have been wrangling for years about Tai Chi vs Yoga; she wanted the former and I wanted the latter. But for the sake of marital peace and togetherness I've come around to just trying to find a tai chi class we can both make and then just get some yoga videos and do some of that on my own. No worries about fast form, though...my morning cardio obsession takes care of the daily sweat quotient.
 
Ok -here we go (I've written about this before at TB, but since I'm 70, I don't remember where!). About 5 years ago I was diagnosed with cervical myleopathy, which meant I was losing motor control on my arms and legs because the spinal fluid wasn't getting to where it was supposed to. I had had surgery to roto-rooter out the vertebrae in my neck and instal a ladder of pins in 2-7 vertebrae. 4 months in a brace; 6 months, no playing. I had been doing (and continue to do) Pilates, acupuncture and Alexander technique and SLOWLY built back my bass playing to maybe 80-90% where it was before (I only play in community orchestra and everyone is pretty supportive and I try to work around stuff I know I can't manage any more). Adding to that I now have Dequervaine's Syndrome, which is an inflammation of the tendons in the wrist.

The messages from the brain to the hand don't always get there on time and, since everything is radially connected, problems from the neck go to the shoulder, wrist, thumb and first finger (which is basically useless outside of 1/2 position; I've created some pretty clever 4-2-shift-2 patterns to compensate).

So I've adapted (which is the point of my writing here): smaller basses (with thinner necks, shorter string lengths, smaller shoulders); play sitting (with the Ergobass "knee rest); Perlon strings (even a steel string like Spiro solo at concert pitch will stress my hand and arm more than the nylon/perlon material); left foot on yoga block; keeping the bass at a (sort of) 45 degree cello angle, so that my elbow is generally pointing DOWN and my left hand is using gravity as much as possible (working now on using as little thumb pressure as possible on the left hand); keeping the scroll of the bass OFF the left shoulder but still close to the left ear; using arm weight in the right hand (german bow - and using the Arcus bows, which really do help) and wearing braces on both hands whenever I play or practice.

I now keep up a pretty active schedule of rehearsals and concerts, but it was four years of adjustments, experiments, frustration etc. (and giving up a couple of large basses that I loved!). But I think it was worth the effort and adjustment. A big rule is STOP - you don't have to practice every day, you can rest, you can pick up the bass for 15 minutes and call it a day etc; listen to your body (and keep doing any and all of the physical activity mentioned above).

In the current edition of Bass World Magazine (ISB) chiropractor (and bassist) Randall Kertz, talks about Thoracic Outlet Syndrom (TOS).
which is the general name for much of the conditions of neck-shoulder-arm-wrist-finger that we suffer from. It is well worth reading.

Sorry for going on so long.
Louis
 
^^^ What Louis said. Plus, there's a kind of perspective gained from going through some of this stuff. While my physical issues are relatively minor compared to some in this thread, I consciously appreciate having two working legs again after all the knee procedures have healed and I've stopped doing the things that caused them. And the sciatic injury was basically a month of sudden random agony at the tiniest wrong movement. Now that that is in the rearview, life seems pretty good every time I am wise enough to stop worrying about the first world problem of the day for a minute and realize that compared to other previous real problems, today's FWP doesn't even rank as a mild fart in a windstorm. That perspective is worth a lot.
 
I saw Charles Lloyd this week and he is still at it at 83!

He takes a seat when the others are soloing, but the chops and good taste are all there. It was a great concert.

IMG_20191107_220309.jpg
 
I guess I should also count myself lucky that at age 71 I haven't had the kinds of debilitating health issues some of you all have had. About the worst is some recurrent lower back issues that seem to come and go on their own regardless of what I do or don't do. Funny, one of the only things I can do when I have these flare-ups that isn't painful is play the bass! I also haven't noticed a decline in skills as I've aged; quite the opposite actually! I think I'm playing better than I ever have, and am somewhat more at peace with where I am musically and where I want to be. I play the same mid-1800's Tyrolean bass I've had for the past 40 years, and am able to keep up a regular 2-3 gig per week playing schedule. Thanks to a full-time job in academic support at a local college (which I recently retired from) I have lifetime healthcare benefits for myself and my wife and have not had to rely on playing gigs to support myself. These days I teach college courses in music, sail during the summer, and play the gigs I want to play; life is good!