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Dedicated Sound Guy??

M

Michelob_64

Feb 6, 2008
136
5
Cincinnati, OH
www.myspace.com
#1
A little background, we are a cover band trying to scratch out an existence in our area. We have 2 guitarists, a bassist, drummer & a singer (who currently is running the board). We are playing for betwen $400 & $500 a night and are trying to keep costs down. To that end, the singer bought a PA instead of hiring it out, as we had in the past which really cut into our profits. Currently the singer makes periodic adjustments to the board but he is in no way a sound engineer.

So just wondering how many of you employ a full time sound guy to run the FOH? Or if one member of the band monitors & runs the board as a second duty between songs? I mean if you are playing big venues then it makes sense to hire it out but does it make sense for a band doing bars to have a dedicated sound guy, and not just a friend baby sitting the board!!!
 
#2
A band with a soundman should always sound better than one without. That is IF he knows what he is doing.:D If you are just running vocals through the PA then I wouldn't use one. That being said I play bass and run sound from stage for most our gigs. Both guitarists and I have wireless set-ups so we can walk out front and listen and we usually do this a couple times a night.
 
#4
My band often plays gigs where there is no PA and that means I'm the soundguy. I have my own decent equipment and it's no problem for me to set up and pretty much let it run on it's own without too much fiddling with during a show, even if we run bass, guitars and drums through it, in addition to vocals. I also have more than 20 years gigging experience including running sound so I know what I'm doing.

Having said that, employing a dedicated sound guy (who also knows what he's doing) will always sound better because he can fine tune during the show and hear what's going on from the floor in real time. But we normally each make about $100 a gig and we're not about to give a cut to someone else just so we can sound negligibly better.

What you should do depends on how confident you feel running it on your own. If you've got the hang of it pretty well then I say keep doing it that way.
 
#5
modulusman said:
A band with a soundman should always sound better than one without. That is IF he knows what he is doing.:D If you are just running vocals through the PA then I wouldn't use one.
Click to expand...

+1.

I´d use one if

-constantly playing in venues with a capacity of more than 200
-if you run everything (including drums) through the PA
-if you can afford it (it´s a profession, not a hobby. at least for the capable ones...)
 
#7
Jayce Bass said:
A sound guy who knows the material as well as the band members is invaluable.

He can also double as the "lights" guy and help with set up and tear down.

A good sound guy deserves an equal share....
Click to expand...

+1000 to the first one. Most important point, though not made too often...

To "doubling as the lights guy"... well... IF it´s possible to concentrate on two dissimilar tasks, then it´s OK, but I´d rather have the sound guy concentrate on his job. in fact, that´s compulsory if your music is complicated and full of "changing moods" and you have pre-planned effects and such. no need to distract him with "multitasking"... get an LD if needed. of course he´ll help with set-up and tear-down. it´s a part (although a small one) of his job.

"equal share": well, at least a fair compensation. depends on the gig and the guys abilities. sometimes the cut would be even more than "equal share"...
 
#8
it really depends upon economics and what you really need.

if you can't swing one, have at least one member of the band get themselves to the point where they really understand how to use the pa. I've found that you can usually grab a buddy who will either tell you if something needs a volume adjust or will adjust the volume faders for you. Unless this cat really really understands how to use a pa, i tell him i'll kill him if he touches anything else. :p
 
#9
IME for simple bar gigs, the PA should be mostly just the amp for the vocals. No sense in splitting the pay up one more way just to run that.

If the show is big enough that you need to mic all the instruments up & mix everything, well then a dedicated sound guy is a good idea. For something on that scale, one should be charging more to accommodate the extra head (and gear).

But for a $400 bar cover gig, that's overkill IMO.
 
#10
Sometimes a Sound tech is purely a luxury, sometimes they are glaringly missing. Staffing is based on more than what the gig pays.

If instrument or vocal levels are stable as a rock the board needs very little attention. If levels aren't well controlled you need more frequent attention to the mix, possibly full-time.
 
#11
Two years ago I told my band (5 peice, 2gtr, bass, female vx plays keys, flute and sax, electronic VDrums, to get a FOH or else. We mike the entire band no matter the size of the gig. We got a guy that was terrible arnd rarely were asked back. Then we met another guy with a great sound system. He is a bass player and has a great attitude. He gets a full cut and we all help HIM set up and tear down. We are always asked back now :) CP

CP
 
#12
Jayce Bass said:
A sound guy who knows the material as well as the band members is invaluable. He can also double as the "lights" guy and help with set up and tear down. A good sound guy deserves an equal share.... So it's really up to the band whether or not it's worth it.
Click to expand...

From having an excellent soundguy who did this- adjusted the mains, our IEM mixes, lights, "break music", etc., I easily will pay out an extra share to someone who knows what they're doing.
 
#13
I always tip our guy, or I give some extra $$$ from my pay to our leaer and ask her to tell him its from the band for gas. He hauls a great PA around in a trailer and the gas must kill him.

Also as far as money. For me I'm 55 and just playing for fun NOW. This is a hobby that pays for itself. I play nearly everyweeked with maybe 75 shows (nights) over the year. Lots of $500 night clubs and a fair number $1500 GB/casual gigs.

Not a lot I'm sure but for our band just right. My point bieng that for me the fact that I have a person out front with great gear that I trust means a lot. The fact that he will do it for just an even cut is amazing so I always try to say thank you anyway I can. He can and does get a lot more when he does a solo gig.

Now I do respect a band that doesn't want to spend the money on a FOH man esp. on gigs that pay say $400 to $500 a night. I's a tough decision but for me it was a no brainer.

Thanks for reading...

CP
 
#14
We gig quite regularly and we have a full blown PA (with subs) even at small shows in bars. Why? Because we get a more even sound throughout, regardless of volume. Using the whole PA doesn't mean we are loud (well...too loud for a given room anyway). We always get compliments on how good we sound and many thanks from the bartenders/owners for not being too loud for them (even though at a new place that's small they get concerned when we start hauling in the gear :eek:). It isn't that big of a hassle since all our gear is in our band trailer and available every gig. The whole PA (and it is quite substantial) only takes us an hour tops to set up and do a sound check, and perhaps an hour or longer to tear down depending on how much fun we are still having at the end of the night. ;) As long as everyone helps haul the gear and has a specific job to do once it's all inside (I hook up all the lights), it goes amazingly fast.

When you rely on solely the stage sound and only use a PA for vocals and maybe another instrument, it can (and usually does) sound uneven depending on where you are in the bar. A full PA will make you sound the way you should everywhere in the bar.

We are a 5 piece band and all have wireless units, so we can all go out and check the sound throughout the gig (although one of us will play the drums so the drummer can go out and get a listen on his drum mix before we do the whole band check).

If I were you, I would have every member of the band learn to use the PA. Learn how it is set up and what every control does, with every component. The benefits are more than just everyone having the ability to control it, it also helps when someone can't get to a gig early enough and that someone is the only one who knows how to set it up and do a sound check.

We are in a similar position where paying a sound guy just isn't worth it right now. We do have a roadie who gets a small cut for helping haul and setup everything (he does not hook up or have anything to do with using the PA). He's a trusted friend who is at most all of our gigs anyway. Besides the small cut, he also gets the free drinks and/or food (depending on the gig) so his small take at the end of the night is fair compensation as he would probably be at the gig anyway in the audience. This way he gets to go out and drink for free. :D I wouldn't trust him to run the PA as our soundman though.

Honestly, good soundmen are hard to find around here. There are tons of people who think they are qualified, but aren't. If it's mainly bar, corporate/wedding gigs then running your own sound is so much easier. If the band members don't really know all that much about it, you could always hire a soundman just for training purposes to show every member how to hook it up and how to run it and do soundchecks. Once you know how, it isn't that hard to do.
 
#15
There is a couple factor that i think should be mentioned.

It's only really worth having a sound engineer if the desk can be out front i.e the back of the hall/venue where you are playing. It's pointless if the main sound desk has to be either behind the band or next to the stage.

I've mixed from various locations in a room, an nothing beats being slap bang in the middle at the back of the hall/venue.
The problem i always found if i had to mix from a side stage postion is that i had to constanly run out front to have a listen, and I wasn't able to do my job properly.

My own opinion as someone who IS a qualified sound engineer,worked on many gigs and has played in several bands. If you have the ability as a band to get yourselves sounding good enough through a P.A, then really you don't need much else.
Also, bear in mind that if your playing bars/functions. The majority of people attending will be drinking (alcohol), which effects your hearing (honestly it does, go look it up). So , there for , if you can get a decent sound yourselves at the begining during a sound check, i really wouldnt worry about being too fidely with your settings as the night goes on, unless there a drastic changes that constantly need to be made. Even then, you might want to look into getting a digital desk, so you could program in different levels for different songs. A digital desk in the long run would be cheaper and less hassle than trying to find a decent soundman.

Just my 2c
 
#16
I'd agree, that it is pointless to have a soundman if you keep the mixer on stage. But it seems that keeping the mixer on stage is pointless as well. We don't play any gigs where we can't have the board in the rear area of the room. Snakes are a great investment, and we always run one. Personally, I don't think that effective mixing can be done on stage, UNLESS you go wireless. Why? If you have the ability to move about the room and check levels, then great...do that and save the dough. When our band gigs, we soundcheck the room empty. Our soundman adjusts the volume, levels and e.q. throughout the night. But none of us run wireless, so we can't walk to the rear and see what we sound like while we're performing, and so the soundman becomes a neccessity. We trust his ear, as he's a practicing musician and good friend. A sound man that will be honest with those on stage is essential as well.
 

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